Exhibit 10.25

                              EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT

          This EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT, dated as of the 3rd day of May, 2005 is
between Conseco Services, LLC, an Indiana limited liability company ("Company"),
and Susan L. Menzel ("Executive").

          WHEREAS, the services of Executive and her managerial and professional
experience are of value to the Company.

          WHEREAS, the Company desires to have the benefit and advantage of the
services of Executive for an extended period to assist the Company and its
parent, Conseco, Inc. ("Conseco") upon the terms and conditions set forth
herein.

          NOW, THEREFORE, in consideration of the foregoing and the mutual
covenants contained herein, the receipt and sufficiency of which are hereby
acknowledged, the parties agree as follows:

          1. Employment. The Company hereby employs Executive and Executive
hereby accepts employment upon the terms and conditions hereinafter set forth.

          2. Term. The effective date of this agreement (the "Agreement") shall
be May 30, 2005 (the "Effective Date"). Subject to the provisions for
termination as provided in Section 10 hereof, the term of Executive's employment
under this Agreement shall be the period beginning on the Effective Date and
ending on the first anniversary of the Effective Date. The term of Executive's
employment shall be automatically renewed for successive one-year terms on May
30, 2006 and each succeeding May 30 unless either party elects not to renew this
Agreement by serving written notice of such election not to renew on the other
party at least 60 days prior to such May 30. As used in this Agreement, the
"Term" is the period ending on May 30, 2006 or, if this Agreement has been
renewed, the one-year period relating to the last renewal. The Term shall end
upon the termination of Executive's employment with the Company.

          3. Duties. During the Term, Executive shall be engaged by the Company
in the capacity of Executive Vice President, Human Resources. Executive shall
report to the President and Chief Executive Officer of Conseco.

          4. Extent of Services. During the Term, subject to the direction and
control of the President of Conseco, Executive shall have the power and
authority commensurate with her executive status and necessary to perform her
duties hereunder. Executive shall devote her entire employable time, attention
and best efforts to the business of the Company and, during the Term, shall not,
without the consent of the Company, be actively engaged in any other business
activity, whether or not such business activity is pursued for gain, profit or
other pecuniary advantage; provided, however, that, subject to Section 9 hereof,
this shall not be construed as preventing Executive from serving on boards of
professional, community, civic, education, charitable and corporate
organizations on which she presently serves or may choose to serve or investing
her assets in such form or manner as will not require any services on the part
of Executive in the operation of the affairs of the companies in which such
investments are made


(to the extent not in violation of the nonsolicitation provisions of Section 9
hereof); provided, however, that for-profit corporate organizations shall be
limited to those mutually agreed upon by Executive and the Company.

          5. Compensation. During the Term:

             (a) As compensation for services hereunder rendered during the Term
          hereof, Executive shall receive an initial base salary ("Base Salary")
          of Three Hundred Thousand Dollars ($300,000) per year payable in equal
          installments in accordance with the Company's payroll procedure for
          its salaried executives. Salary payments and other payments under this
          Agreement shall be subject to withholding of taxes and other
          appropriate and customary amounts. The Base Salary shall be reviewed
          at least annually at the same time as other senior executives, and
          Executive may receive increases in her Base Salary from time to time,
          based upon her performance, subject to approval of the Company. The
          Base Salary, as in effect from time to time, may not be decreased.

             (b) In addition to Base Salary, Executive will have an opportunity
          to earn a bonus each year as determined by the Company, with a target
          annual bonus equal to 50% of Executive's Base Salary (the "Target
          Bonus") and a maximum annual bonus of 100% of Executive's Base Salary
          with respect to any calendar year, with such bonus payable at such
          time that other similar payments are made to other Company executives.
          For purposes of clarification, annual executive bonuses are generally
          paid in March of the year following the year with respect to which
          such bonuses are payable, if Executive remains employed with the
          Company through such date. Notwithstanding the above, (i) Executive is
          guaranteed a minimum bonus for the calendar year 2005 performance
          period equal to One Hundred Fifty Thousand ($150,000) and (ii)
          Executive's pro-rata bonus for her final year of employment will be
          paid at the same time that similar payments are made to other Company
          executives if Executive remains employed through the end of the Term
          ending on May 30 of any year. The Target Bonus will be based on
          financial and other objective targets that the Company reasonably
          believes are reasonably attainable at the time that they are set.

             (c) As soon as reasonably practicable, Executive will receive an
          award of (i) options to purchase 50,000 shares of common stock with an
          exercise price equal to the fair market value on the date of the grant
          and (ii) 10,000 shares of restricted stock. One hundred percent (100%)
          of the options will vest over a 4-year period beginning on the date of
          the grant of the equity awards, with one-fourth vesting on each
          anniversary of such grant date. Fifty percent (50%) of the restricted
          stock will vest on the second anniversary of the date of grant of the
          restricted stock, with the other fifty percent (50%) vesting on the
          third anniversary of such grant date. Executive shall also be eligible
          to participate in and receive future grants under any stock option or
          equity-based program offered by Conseco to senior executives, subject
          to the discretion of the board of directors of Conseco, Inc. (the
          "Board").

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          6. Fringe Benefits. During the Term:

             (a) Executive shall be entitled to participate in such existing
          executive benefit plans and insurance programs offered by the Company,
          or which it may adopt from time to time, for its executive management
          or supervisory personnel generally, in accordance with the eligibility
          requirements for participation therein. Nothing herein shall be
          construed so as to prevent the Company from modifying or terminating
          any executive benefit plans or programs, or executive fringe benefits,
          that it may adopt from time to time.

             (b) Executive shall be entitled to four weeks of vacation with pay
          each year.

             (c) Executive may incur reasonable expenses for promoting the
          Company's business, including expenses for entertainment, travel, and
          similar items. The Company shall reimburse Executive for all such
          reasonable expenses upon Executive's periodic presentation of an
          itemized account of such expenditures on a timely basis in accordance
          with the Company's reimbursement policy. The Company agrees to pay
          Executive an additional amount to cover the incremental additional
          income taxes incurred by Executive, if any, with respect to payment or
          reimbursement of any reasonable business expenses pursuant to this
          subsection (c).

             (d) Executive shall be entitled to reimbursement of the legal fees
          incurred by Executive in connection with this Agreement.

          7. Disability. If Executive shall become physically or mentally
disabled during the Term to the extent that her ability to perform her duties
and services hereunder is materially and adversely impaired, her Base Salary,
bonus and other compensation provided herein shall continue while she remains
employed by the Company; provided, that if such disability (as confirmed by
competent medical evidence) continues for at least six (6) consecutive months,
the Company may terminate Executive's employment hereunder, in which case the
Company immediately shall pay Executive a cash payment equal to (i) her annual
Base Salary as provided in Section 5(a) hereof to the extent earned but unpaid
as of the date of termination and (ii) a pro-rata portion of the Target Bonus
for the year in which her disability occurs plus the Target Bonus for the
preceding year if her disability occurs after year-end but before such bonuses
are paid. However, any options or restricted stock held by Executive on the date
of termination shall vest only through the date of termination according to the
normal vesting schedule applicable to such options or restricted stock and
Executive shall not receive any accelerated or additional vesting of such stock
or options due to termination under this Section 7 on or after such date. No
payments or vesting under this paragraph will be made if such disability arose
primarily from (a) chronic use of intoxicants, drugs or narcotics (other than
drugs prescribed to Executive by a physician and used by Executive for their
intended purpose for which they had been prescribed) or (b) intentionally
self-inflicted injury or intentionally self-induced illness.

          8. Disclosure of Information. Executive acknowledges that, in and as a
result of her employment with the Company, she has been and will be making use
of, acquiring and/or adding to confidential information of the Company and its
affiliates of a special and unique nature and value. As a material inducement to
the Company to enter into this Agreement and to pay to

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Executive the compensation stated in Section 5, as well as any additional
benefits stated herein, Executive covenants and agrees that she shall not, at
any time while she is employed by the Company or at any time thereafter,
directly or indirectly, divulge or disclose for any purpose whatsoever, any
confidential information (whether or not specifically labeled or identified as
"confidential information"), in any form or medium, that has been obtained by or
disclosed to her as a result of her employment with the Company and which the
Company or any of its affiliates has taken appropriate steps to safeguard,
except to the extent that such confidential information (a) becomes a matter of
public record or is published in a newspaper, magazine or other periodical
available to the general public, other than as a result of any act or omission
of Executive, (b) is required to be disclosed by any law, regulation or order of
any court or regulatory commission, department or agency, in which event
Executive shall give prompt notice of such requirement to the Company to enable
the Company to seek an appropriate protective order or confidential treatment,
or (c) must be disclosed to enable Executive properly to perform her duties
under this Agreement. Upon the termination of Executive's employment, Executive
shall return such information (in whatever form) obtained from or belonging to
the Company or any of its affiliates which she may have in her possession or
control.

          9. Covenants Against Solicitation. Executive acknowledges that the
services she is to render to the Company and its affiliates are of a special and
unusual character, with a unique value to the Company and its affiliates, the
loss of which cannot adequately be compensated by damages or an action at law.
In view of the unique value to the Company and its affiliates of the services of
Executive for which the Company has contracted hereunder, because of the
confidential information to be obtained by, or disclosed to, Executive as set
forth in Section 8 above, and as a material inducement to the Company to enter
into this Agreement and to pay to Executive the compensation stated in Section 5
hereof, as well as any additional benefits stated herein, and other good and
valuable consideration, Executive covenants and agrees that throughout the
period Executive remains employed or compensated hereunder and for one year (or
18 months in the event that Executive is receiving salary continuation pursuant
to Section 11(d)) thereafter, Executive shall not, directly or indirectly,
anywhere in the United States of America (i) solicit or attempt to convert to
other insurance carriers or other corporations, persons or other entities
providing these same or similar products or services provided by the Company and
its affiliates, any customers or policyholders of the Company or any of its
affiliates or (ii) solicit for employment or employ any individual who was
employed by the Company or any of its affiliates during the Term of this
Agreement. Should any particular covenant or provision of this Section 9 be held
unreasonable or contrary to public policy for any reason, including, without
limitation, the time period, geographical area, or scope of activity covered by
any restrictive covenant or provision, the Company and Executive acknowledge and
agree that such covenant or provision shall automatically be deemed modified
such that the contested covenant or provision shall have the closest effect
permitted by applicable law to the original form and shall be given effect and
enforced as so modified to whatever extent would be reasonable and enforceable
under applicable law.

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          10. Termination.

             (a) Either the Company or Executive may terminate her employment at
          any time for any reason upon written notice to the other. The Company
          may terminate Executive's employment for Just Cause pursuant to
          Section 10(b) below or in a Control Termination pursuant to Section
          10(c) below. Executive's employment shall also terminate (i) upon
          nonrenewal of the agreement, (ii) upon the death of Executive, (iii)
          after disability of Executive pursuant to Section 7 hereof or (iv) by
          Executive's termination of employment With Reason.

             (b) The Company may terminate Executive's employment at any time
          for Just Cause. For purposes of this Agreement, "Just Cause" shall
          mean: (i) (A) a material breach by Executive of this Agreement not
          cured to the Company's reasonable satisfaction within 15 days after
          written notice to Executive by the Company, (B) a material breach of
          Executive's duty of loyalty to the Company or its affiliates, or (C)
          willful malfeasance or fraud or dishonesty of a substantial nature in
          performing Executive's services on behalf of the Company or its
          affiliates, which in each case is willful and deliberate on
          Executive's part and committed in bad faith or without reasonable
          belief that such breach or action is in the best interests of the
          Company or its affiliates; (ii) Executive's use of alcohol or drugs
          (other than drugs prescribed to Executive by a physician and used by
          Executive for their intended purposes for which they had been
          prescribed) or other repeated conduct which materially and repeatedly
          interferes with the performance of her duties hereunder, which
          materially compromises the integrity or the reputation of the Company
          or its affiliates, or which results in other substantial economic harm
          to the Company or its affiliates; (iii) Executive's conviction by a
          court of law, admission that she is guilty, or entry of a plea of nolo
          contendere with regard to a felony or other crime involving moral
          turpitude; (iv) Executive's unscheduled absence from her employment
          duties other than as a result of illness or disability, for whatever
          cause, for a period of more than ten (10) consecutive days, without
          consent from the Company prior to the expiration of the ten (10) day
          period; or (v) Executive's failure to take action or to abstain from
          taking action, as directed in writing by a member of the board or a
          higher ranking executive of the Company or Conseco, where such failure
          continues after Executive has been given written notice of such
          failure and at least five (5) business days thereafter to cure such
          failure.

             No termination shall be deemed to be a termination by the Company
          for Just Cause if the termination is as a result of Executive refusing
          to act in a manner that would be a violation of applicable law or
          where Executive acts (or refrains from taking action) in good faith in
          accordance with directions of a member of the board or higher ranking
          executive but was unable to attain the desired results because such
          results were inherently unreasonable or unattainable.

             (c) The Company may terminate Executive's employment in a Control
          Termination. A "Control Termination" shall mean any termination by the
          Company (or its successor) of Executive's employment for any reason
          within six months in anticipation of or within two years following a
          Change in Control of the Company.

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          The term "Change in Control" shall mean the occurrence of any of the
following:

                  (i) the acquisition (other than an acquisition in connection
             with a "Non-Control Transaction") by any "person" (as such term is
             used in Sections 13(d) and 14(d) of the Securities Exchange Act of
             1934, as amended (the "1934 Act")) of "beneficial ownership" (as
             such term is defined in Rule 13d-3 promulgated under the 1934 Act),
             directly or indirectly, of securities of the Company or its
             Ultimate Parent representing 51% or more of the combined voting
             power of the then outstanding securities of Conseco or its Ultimate
             Parent entitled to vote generally with respect to the election of
             the board of directors of Conseco or its Ultimate Parent; or

                  (ii) as a result of or in connection with a tender or exchange
             offer or contest for election of directors, individual board
             members of Conseco (identified as of the date of commencement of
             such tender or exchange offer, or the commencement of such election
             contest, as the case may be) cease to constitute at least a
             majority of the board of directors of Conseco; or

                  (iii) the consummation of a merger, consolidation or
             reorganization with or into Conseco unless (x) the stockholders of
             Conseco immediately before such transaction beneficially own,
             directly or indirectly, immediately following such transaction
             securities representing 51% or more of the combined voting power of
             the then outstanding securities entitled to vote generally with
             respect to the election of the board of directors of Conseco (or
             its successor) or, if applicable, the Ultimate Parent and (y)
             individual board members of Conseco (identified as of the date that
             a binding agreement providing for such transaction is signed)
             constitute at least a majority of the board of directors of Conseco
             (or its successor) or, if applicable, the Ultimate Parent (a
             transaction to which clauses (x) and (y) apply, a "Non-Control
             Transaction").

          For purposes of this Agreement, "Ultimate Parent" shall mean the
          parent corporation (or if there is more than one parent corporation,
          the ultimate parent corporation) that, following a transaction,
          directly or indirectly beneficially owns a majority of the voting
          power of the outstanding securities entitled to vote with respect to
          the election of the board of directors of Conseco (or its successor).

             (d) At Executive's option, she may terminate employment with the
          Company "With Reason" provided one or more of the following conditions
          are met: (i) her role or duties have been materially diminished by
          changes in responsibilities or authority; (ii) Executive is required
          to report to anyone other than the President of Conseco; (iii)
          Executive is required to relocate her residence without her consent
          (recognizing that a significant portion of her time will be spent at
          the Company's offices in Carmel, Indiana and in Philadelphia,
          Pennsylvania); (iv) any reduction in Executive's Base Salary or Target
          Bonus; (v) any change in Executive's title without her prior written
          consent; (vi) a material breach by the Company of this Agreement not
          cured to Executive's reasonable satisfaction within 15 days after
          written notice to the Company by Executive; or (vii)

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          there is a "Change in Control" as defined in Section 10(c) and,
          following Executive's written request made prior to the Change in
          Control, the ultimate parent entity or entities directly or indirectly
          gaining control of a majority of Conseco's board of directors or
          outstanding securities entitled to vote with respect to Conseco's
          board of directors fails to affirm and guarantee the Company's current
          and future obligations under this Agreement.

             (e) Upon termination of Executive's employment with the Company for
          any reason (whether voluntary or involuntary), Executive shall be
          deemed to have voluntarily resigned from all positions that Executive
          may then hold with the Company and any of its affiliates; provided
          that such deemed resignation shall not adversely affect Executive's
          rights to compensation or benefits under Section 11 of this Agreement
          and shall not affect the determination of whether Executive's
          termination was for Just Cause.

          11. Payments Following Termination.

             (a) In the event that Executive's employment is terminated by the
          Company for Just Cause (as defined herein), upon non-renewal by the
          Company or Executive, upon expiration of the Term of this Agreement or
          Executive voluntarily resigns, then the Company immediately shall pay
          Executive a cash payment of her Base Salary as provided in Section
          5(a) hereof that was earned but unpaid as of the date of termination.
          Any options or restricted stock held by Executive on the date of
          termination shall vest only through the date of termination according
          to the normal vesting schedule applicable to such options or
          restricted stock, and Executive shall not receive any accelerated or
          additional vesting of such stock or options on or after such date.

             (b) In the event Executive's employment is terminated by the death
          of Executive, then the Company shall pay Executive's estate a cash
          lump sum of the sum of (i) the remaining payments of Base Salary
          described in Section 5(a) that would have been payable to Executive
          through the date of death and (ii) a pro-rata portion of the Target
          Bonus for the year in which her death occurs plus the Target Bonus for
          the preceding year if her death occurs after year-end but before such
          bonuses are paid. Any options or restricted stock held by Executive on
          the date of termination shall vest only through the date of
          termination according to the normal vesting schedule applicable to
          such options or restricted stock, and Executive shall not receive any
          accelerated or additional vesting of such stock or options on or after
          such date.

             (c) In the event that Executive is terminated by the Company
          without Just Cause (and other than non-renewal, death, disability or a
          Control Termination) or by Executive With Reason or by non-renewal of
          this Agreement by the Company, then the Company shall pay Executive
          (i) on a basis consistent with the timing of the Company's normal
          payroll processing, the remaining payments of Base Salary described in
          Section 5(a) that would have been payable to Executive through the
          date of her termination of employment, (ii) a cash lump sum equal to
          her Base Salary and Target Bonus and (iii) a cash lump sum equal to a
          pro-rata portion of the Target Bonus for the year in which the date of
          termination occurs plus the Target Bonus for the preceding year if
          termination occurs after year-end but before such bonuses are paid.
          Executive shall also be entitled to medical benefits for 12 months at
          active employee contribution rates and senior executive

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          level outplacement services by a firm selected by Executive and
          reasonably approve d by the Company. Any options or restricted stock
          held by Executive on the date of termination shall vest only through
          the date of termination according to the normal vesting schedule
          applicable to such options or restricted stock, and Executive shall
          not receive any accelerated or additional vesting of such stock or
          options on or after such date.

             (d) In the event that Executive is terminated by the Company (or
          its successor) in a Control Termination as so defined, then the
          Company shall pay Executive (i) on a basis consistent with the timing
          of the Company's normal payroll processing, the remaining payments of
          Base Salary described in Section 5(a) that would have been payable to
          Executive through the date of her termination of employment, (ii) a
          cash lump sum equal to one and one-half times her Base Salary and
          Target Bonus and (iii) a cash lump sum equal to a pro-rata portion of
          the Target Bonus for the year in which the date of termination occurs
          plus the Target Bonus for the preceding year if termination occurs
          after year-end but before such bonuses are paid. Executive shall also
          be entitled to medical benefits for 18 months at active employee
          contribution rates and senior executive level outplacement services by
          a firm selected by Executive and reasonably approved by the Company.
          To the extent that Executive is terminated in a Control Termination
          that occurs in anticipation of a Change in Control, any options or
          restricted stock held by Executive shall fully vest, retroactive to
          the date of termination, upon the occurrence of the Change in Control.

             (e) Notwithstanding anything to the contrary, in the event that
          Executive's employment terminates, the Company shall pay or provide to
          Executive (i) in accordance with its standard payroll practice,
          Executive's accrued vacation, (ii) any expenses for which she is
          entitled to reimbursement, (iii) vested benefits under the Company's
          employee benefit plans and (iv) continuation or conversion rights
          under the Company's employee benefit plans, to the extent Executive
          would otherwise be entitled to such rights under the terms of such
          plans.

             (f) Notwithstanding anything to the contrary, payment of severance
          under this Agreement is conditioned upon the execution by Executive of
          a separation and release agreement in a form acceptable to Executive
          and the Company and the observation of such waiting or revocation
          periods, if any, before and after execution of the agreement by
          Executive as are required by law, such as, for example, the waiting or
          revocation periods required for a waiver and release to be effective
          with respect to claims under the Age Discrimination in Employment Act,
          provided that the Company delivers to Executive such agreement within
          seven days of the date of her termination.

          12. Change in Control. In the event of a Change in Control, Executive
will be entitled to the full vesting of any options and restricted stock held by
Executive on the date of such Change in Control.

          13. Character of Termination Payments. The amounts payable to
Executive upon any termination of her employment shall be considered severance
pay in consideration of past

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services rendered on behalf of the Company and her continued service from the
date hereof to the date she becomes entitled to such payments and shall be the
sole amount of severance pay to which Executive is entitled from the Company and
its affiliates upon termination of her employment during the Term. Executive
shall have no duty to mitigate her damages by seeking other employment.

          14. Representations of the Parties.

             (a) The Company represents and warrants to Executive that (i) this
          Agreement has been duly authorized, executed and delivered by the
          Company and constitutes valid and binding obligations of the Company;
          and (ii) the employment of Executive on the terms and conditions
          contained in this Agreement will not conflict with, result in a breach
          or violation of, constitute a default under, or result in the creation
          or imposition of any lien, charge or encumbrance upon any property or
          assets of the Company pursuant to: (A) the certificate of formation,
          (B) the terms of any indenture, contract, lease, mortgage, deed of
          trust, note, loan agreement or other agreement, obligation, condition,
          covenant or instrument to which the Company is a party or bound or to
          which its property is subject, or (C) any statute, law, rule,
          regulation, judgment, order or decree applicable to the Company, or
          any regulatory body, administrative agency, governmental body,
          arbitrator or other authority having jurisdiction over the Company.

             (b) Executive represents and warrants to the Company that: (i) this
          Agreement has been duly executed and delivered by Executive and
          constitutes a valid and binding obligation of Executive; and (ii)
          neither the execution of this Agreement by Executive nor her
          employment by the Company on the terms and conditions contained herein
          will conflict with, result in a breach or violation of, or constitute
          a default under any agreement, obligation, condition, covenant or
          instrument to which Executive is a party or bound or to which her
          property is subject, or any statute, law, rule, regulation, judgment,
          order or decree applicable to Executive of any court, regulatory body,
          administrative agency, governmental body, arbitrator or other
          authority having jurisdiction over Executive or any of her property.

          15. Arbitration of Disputes; Injunctive Relief.

             (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) below, any controversy or
          claim arising out of or relating to this Agreement or the breach
          thereof shall be settled by binding arbitration in the City of
          Indianapolis, Indiana, in accordance with the laws of the State of
          Indiana by three arbitrators, one of whom shall be appointed by the
          Company, one by Executive, and the third of whom shall be appointed by
          the first two arbitrators. If the first two arbitrators cannot agree
          on the appointment of a third arbitrator, then the third arbitrator
          shall be appointed by the Chief Judge of the United States District
          Court for the Southern District of Indiana. The arbitration shall be
          conducted in accordance with the American Arbitration Association's
          National Rules For The Resolution of Employment Disputes, except with
          respect to the selection of arbitrators, which shall be as provided in
          this Section. Judgment upon the award rendered by the arbitrators may
          be entered in any court having jurisdiction thereof. The arbitrators
          shall have the discretionary authority to award costs, expenses and
          fees, including reasonable legal fees,

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          to the prevailing party. Except as otherwise awarded by the
          arbitrators, each party shall pay its own costs and expenses incurred
          in connection with the enforcement of this Agreement, regardless of
          the final outcome.

             (b) Executive acknowledges that a breach or threatened breach by
          Executive of Sections 8 or 9 of this Agreement will give rise to
          irreparable injury to the Company and that money damages will not be
          adequate relief for such injury. Notwithstanding paragraph (a) above,
          the Company and Executive agree that the Company may seek and obtain
          injunctive relief, including, without limitation, temporary
          restraining orders, preliminary injunctions and/or permanent
          injunctions, in a court of proper jurisdiction to restrain or prohibit
          a breach or threatened breach of Section 8 or 9 of this Agreement.
          Nothing herein shall be construed as prohibiting the Company from
          pursuing any other remedies available to the Company for such breach
          or threatened breach, including the recovery of damages from
          Executive.

          16. Notices. Any notice required or permitted to be given under this
Agreement shall be sufficient if in writing and if sent by registered mail to
her residence, in the case of Executive, or to the business office of its
General Counsel, in the case of the Company.

          17. Waiver of Breach and Severability. The waiver by either party of a
breach of any provision of this Agreement by the other party shall not operate
or be construed as a waiver of any subsequent breach by either party. In the
event any provision of this Agreement is found to be invalid or unenforceable,
it may be severed from the Agreement, and the remaining provisions of the
Agreement shall continue to be binding and effective.

          18. Entire Agreement. Other than any equity award agreements entered
into pursuant to an applicable long-term incentive plan, this instrument
contains the entire agreement of the parties and, as of the Effective Date,
supersedes all other obligations of the Company and its affiliates under other
agreements or otherwise. The compensation and benefits to be paid under the
terms of this Agreement are in lieu of all other compensation or benefits to
which Executive is entitled from Conseco, the Company, and its affiliates. This
Agreement may not be changed orally, but only by an instrument in writing signed
by the party against whom enforcement of any waiver, change, modification,
extension or discharge is sought.

          19. Binding Agreement and Governing Law; Assignment Limited. This
Agreement shall be binding upon and shall inure to the benefit of the parties
and their lawful successors in interest (including, without limitation,
Executive's estate, heirs and personal representatives) and, except for issues
or matters as to which federal law is applicable, shall be construed in
accordance with and governed by the laws of the State of Indiana. This Agreement
is personal to each of the parties hereto, and neither party may assign or
delegate any of its rights or obligations hereunder without the prior written
consent of the other.

          20. Indemnification. If Executive was or is made a party or is
threatened to be made a party to or is otherwise involved (including involvement
as a witness) in any action, suit or proceeding, whether civil, criminal,
administrative or investigative (a "Proceeding"), by reason of the fact that she
is or was an officer or employee of the Company or any of its affiliates,
Executive shall be indemnified and held harmless by the Company to the fullest
extent authorized by the Delaware General Corporation Law, as the same exists or
may hereafter be

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amended (but, in the case of any such amendment, only to the extent that such
amendment permits the Company to provide broader indemnification rights than
permitted prior thereto), against all expense, liability and loss (including
attorneys' fees, judgments, fines, excise taxes or penalties and amounts paid in
settlement) reasonably incurred or suffered by Executive in connection therewith
and such indemnification shall continue as to Executive if she ceases to be an
officer or employee and shall inure to the benefit of Executive's heirs,
executors and administrators; provided, however, that the Company shall
indemnify Executive in connection with a proceeding (or part thereof) initiated
by Executive only if such Proceeding (or part thereof) was authorized by the
board of directors of the Company. The right to indemnification conferred in
this paragraph shall include the obligation of the Company to pay the expenses
incurred in defending any such proceeding in advance of its final disposition
(an "Advance of Expenses"); provided, however, that, if and to the extent that
the Delaware General Corporation Law requires, an Advance of Expenses incurred
by Executive in her capacity as an officer or employee shall be made only upon
delivery to the Company of an undertaking, by or on behalf of Executive, to
repay all amounts so advanced if it shall ultimately be determined by final
judicial decision from which there is no further right to appeal that Executive
is not entitled to be indemnified for such expenses under this paragraph or
otherwise.

          21. No Third Party Beneficiaries. The terms and provisions of this
Agreement are intended solely for the benefit of each party hereto and their
respective successors or permitted assigns, and it is not intended to confer
third-party beneficiary rights upon any other person.

          22. Survival. This Agreement shall survive the end of the Term for as
long as necessary to carry out the provisions of this Agreement.

          23. Construction. Each and every provision of this Agreement shall be
construed as though both parties participated equally in the drafting of this
Agreement.

          24. Counterparts. This Agreement may be executed in counterparts, each
of which shall be deemed to be an original, but all of which together shall
constitute one and the same instrument.




                                      * * *

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IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties have executed this Agreement as of the date
first above written, effective as of the Effective Date.



                                       COMPANY:
                                       CONSECO SERVICES, LLC


                                       /s/Daniel J. Murphy
                                       ------------------------------------
                                       Daniel J. Murphy
                                       President



                                       EXECUTIVE:

                                       /s/Susan L. Menzel
                                       ------------------------------------
                                       Susan L. Menzel






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