UWM (UWMC) 26 Feb 252024 Q4 Earnings call transcript

Company Profile

Participants

Blake Kolo	executive
Mathew Ishbia	executive
Andrew Hubacker	executive
Terry Ma	analyst
Eric Hagen	analyst
Derek Sommers	analyst
Bose George	analyst
Bradley Capuzzi	analyst
Douglas Harter	analyst
Jeffrey Adelson	analyst
Mikhail Goberman	analyst

Call transcript

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Operator

Good morning. My name is Regina, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the UWM Holdings Corporation Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2024 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions]

Thank you. begin may you Kolo, the conference. Blake

Blake Kolo

year This Head of morning. and to and is call. Corporation's for Blake and Officer welcome full quarter fourth Business Chief the UWM Investor us, Holdings earnings Kolo, joining Good XXXX Relations. you Thank

Before to everyone conference would that like statements. includes forward-looking I we this start, remind call

For differ earnings statements, forward-looking to the materially release morning. about we please that this cause may factors information from more actual to issued that results refer

financial non-GAAP measures. Our commentary include today will also

For non-GAAP metrics between the earlier to our as information GAAP reported the release SEC. well earnings refer reconciliations on our the and metrics the filings please and issued for non-GAAP as the with today results,

Holdings turn will Mortgage. the Wholesale call now of Chairman I UWM and Corporation Matt United to Ishbia, over and CEO

Mathew Ishbia

thank joining XXXX Blake, us year. you, fantastic Thanks, for today. everyone, another was and

year-over-year, one I the We the X think years of have while. toughest mortgage XX% $XXX headlines saw tough. Obviously, the in a last about you been million. of years grew

Our sales up indicator, basis which been broker XXX [ a as advanced the talking well. is biggest we've things bit all ] grew points channel, quite the and about XX%,

the third far than was seen maybe quarter XX.X%, higher years. which in is XX metric we've think I

the we've continued of about to talking have All things been happen.

dominate technology channel to grow years. highest purchase and continue its I in the competitive help talent, our broker the We of world-class market, like advantages in leveraged said, service. And share industry

title We our company see. as to the exciting retained largest so the U.S. And in mortgage

the lender America. think tenth #X in year as the in consecutive think wholesale I #X it's consecutive purchase it's mortgage I company in year, The consecutive year XXXX America. we're now the the was third the lender. And fourth Now largest

UWM. about what we're very XXXX excited year, amazing proud at we're and XXXX. So we're super was here doing an of

change on technology, best AI, mortgage in and to rates about over spoken trillion are in capitalize in few in dynamics. market in the we're past the invest position including current X%. our in investing I've There cutting to any we $X.X the quarters, growing continued egg people, and As

take rates on so more happens and money. on shift we won't market, are we making focused No can competition. those it to And in sure much control prepared than loans a the matter we what what to be of the for our are

heard all changing, again. our even say this that about whether regulatory unique rates business is that or preparing say changes. future, the You've interest is we also enough new strong me win technology before, simultaneously it I'll it UWM can now be trend consumer The while for dropping, big thing

either sales But year production. And time. history. XXXX overall an of amazing we for $XX year the was might that we production, direct lender billion We be the highest all purchase think our billion had I of increase. of lowest XXXX. UWM time guess all home actually $XXX.X Over in had any since and of XX% XXXX best way, had

$XXX.X about million We income, margin our last points, exact, XXX from business points year. up the later. $XXX tripled despite game to rate XXXX XXXX our is to be little basis environment. compared also We is bit of million about which talk we'll deliver in refinance which XX a interest and net basis

if $XX.X business. did X-week pointing but out, billion Turning We're $XX over worth billion, we going that in the if do October. what are rate drop. with September. the actually find a small can We happen What you're like thinking amazing $XX fourth happens. bigger also out, within a It's we rate, billion across an $XX run our drop quick billion, in to drop, rate all of almost $XX.X double doubled prepared the a And was quarter. $XX to here net guidance. you Gain we plus, quarter our the little for production August billion well a our had board, guidance. with did points, XXX of rate in quarter. And that There's is obviously, minor within of kind in thing, we and which well business was the quarter, And month to million margin it basis income. exciting.

we're again, great to we're once all whatever sides in year, quarter. Firing So great here. market and market for does, gives whatever the UWM, ready ready us dominate

over more So will information. turn Andrew I'm to our who use CFO, going Hubacker, to

Andrew Hubacker

year Thanks, Matt. Matt our many financial performance. covered full of QX already aspects and

focus So a few -- few additional a on just just I highlights. will

operationally with million $XXX adjusted profitable XXXX remained in We in EBITDA.

the $XXX growing technology operational our a when to with growth. people, and origination production For prior that despite XXXX we operational handle QX, technology company results in prepare operations, fixed than did Said volume year, These exceeded believe to our million. our have significant on we $XXX.X greater largely as We significantly XXXX. billion we GAAP and were for our increasing basis in and without origination additional increased $XXX expenses. the underwriting in long-term invested volume, basis million we support capacity EBITDA and of even $XXX operational currently teams consistent earned in than invested volume believe an more $XXX short- we we can And million we our billion. and adjusted differently, was investments, processes continued on

and environment. leverage maintained ranges the in ratios within current our liquidity capital also We and targeted

so wholesale in $X.X of but of portfolio operational accessible we prepared MSR and had for company As being fair XXXX total liquidity billion. focused operationally a we and and well as for market channel equity, capabilities positioned of we opportunities see any these market of significant on approximately cycle. we liquidity of the value $X.X many financially believe remain billion the year approximately $XXX opportunities. from of billion We've and prepare to also approximately with a this ways, the and our $X end about what for that perspective, year, an just the a capital investing We million talked the of was year, cash, in total over throughout

over President Matt for Chairman, turn remarks. now Ishbia, CEO, and our will closing to things I back

Mathew Ishbia

Thanks, is start a and in fronts. XXXX, see of year those XXXX as you'll income we few categories, can't and you perspective, points in down in before From see we the with 'XX AI all growth as dominate over a you see, we knowledge, and and numbers technology in result front, on major our well, mortgage our huge a great Andrew. X I'll close production of And cash our in XX really was in Q&A. Where market. XXXX artificial can some a to things we year. a the where production. year are intelligence banner financials did efficiency winning invested

show XXXX. quarter yet. fourth the continues numbers to broker momentum. incredible quarter The third In channel Obviously, out aren't

from all For share third quarter XXXX. 'XX broker up the of grew double third channel fund quarter, years and X X so from where in almost percentage was points X% XX.X% it the direct was

can almost years just know, X is again? the doubled. X we we're [ to see, we but I we ago. working in amazing since can public the allegates], It's do we it in like hard right? I next years, again, So went channel gaining momentum, broker it's towards The and don't know would, years said it double it it

the channel excited talked to to about join like 'XX. forward. continues them from our loan momentum actually by join how We're 'XX officers retail over grow is the Additionally, in and leaving to over we channel see This half broker the XX,XXX calculation, it with going brokers. of continuing,

welcome culture With factor we what brokerage at Also created brokerage all coming clients, these care We're on XX,XXX each us. always year, great the back at spread of we've people channel. is things the to the UWM. training campus. with differentiates technology, our helped culture The and UWM our

day continue flourish team coming UWM. Our to clients grow and our program, our here to loves and can and foreign both work our training so people world-class, remains every internally

single same. team and dominating XXXX, a what to best rates shift our the In continue the day and shareholders. XXXX, staying best broker I'm like did by care for service and and purchase in proud I'm family, ] members every in excited treating very of we by them technology reward of about take Build the our clients XXXX. [ provide remain win and our priors prepared channel, incredible to the

QX, looking to the billion. to billion $XX in to we guidance expect $XX Now do

quarter, quarter guys carry you we this so well. first year the Last always as lowest know, we to on year, and that the expect production As always did is billion. $XX.X

guidance So low the end that's is actually year. of this what below our

also We and quarter. to be margin between XXX XX expect the for gain basis first points

a expecting great XXXX quarter, we're an So even here importantly, UWM. more at amazing first but

questions. for Thanks So to today. time your turn now over I'm to going

Operator

question first comes Barclays. with line Our Instructions] from Ma of Terry [Operator the

Terry Ma

should expect with in forward? kind there quite It just a expenses. what quarter. rate was and run Maybe I'm than operating were onetime this starting what we higher of like we bit a there first just if curious expecting anything going for was

Mathew Ishbia

to investment, do it's it every going No, but Yes. onetime a month. we're

dominate. we're we're doing what So to investing our is in business

even are mind. not billion my the business. double So $XXX thought that, Andrew can our as maybe like do more more, to expenses we than but said We're of literally prepared,

is preparation so key. And

little saw, else do We've refi our October. in that. boom the can As doubled you Nobody guys almost business.

And only now, is strong as but the purchase really prepared also that, really, for the momentum the so not and right we're prepared we're from dominate. to perspective, refi

business is not our nickel-dime, so model And expense. every

is win. Our model business

done. to huge And about so things, dividends, like not of such talking the we've these we're scheme little just And in big always investments, expenses. that these are going investments are pay

the don't people. need we probably more expenses, to so many And hire

going So of be we're more from about to a it perspective replacing we is attrition. how think flatlined

year a go what dominant like not more, for. was it's up investing going 'XX technology an year. a So and were our year expenses these building but That's is investments. we're will XXXX and

Terry Ma

it. Got

maybe Okay. refi. of just on And kind

kind of initiatives you XXXX. share forward? you're the and it kind of around going just Maybe doing all that, outlook the refi talk mentioned in kind You of for about what is tripled

Mathew Ishbia

the the you topic Yes. to earlier be business, my back more are refi we outlook share is Well, purchase doing to on see. double phenomenal. in our statement saw And refi is we which business. still on general, share will to same But the prepared tripled interesting

purchase in was a and any purchase slow obviously, it a sales the year was think largest And the I those history market. by year stuff all the it from in lender.

off. a money far are is think always rate a houses like I XXXX be will there's down gets and we start is of better The side, right if that we XXX the you're some tell is need just X, But we then talking to are about we're not it where to I like refi closer So than about at. of prepared. you think, on this, X going There's more at ish. sale. lower quarter now, for year. tenure dollars trillions you're XX, seeing the And

We XXXX. We're opportunity going we're excited in we're continue refi. excited heck the really dominate a for to it's to year. going on think to about of what's be And going and purchase, to on so happen

Operator

next comes the question Hagen line Eric Our from of BTIG. with

Eric Hagen

Okay.

do So rates pass with successful rates? like have or other for to been levels like to success how incentives, maybe these measure How active interest really that for the different savings along various success initiatives you benchmark borrowers. you you for do guys offering at mortgage ways brokers maybe

Mathew Ishbia

Thanks, I'm this key the going I to XX time Appreciate -- margin more through. this of a there's XXX. XXX first probably noticed, to question. our of have can if is more a Yes, Yes. is here to the complicated do from for lot I on thing But go than XX you It's the and call. to Eric. the lot bumped ways detail

XXX years, for the time to I in So we is were opportunity troughs. at XX coming. first believe

be -- the Now mean don't things. high end to of we're these on going I doesn't

going going you it. we're do I always I which what to do be consistently deliver, I what we're to think tell delivering we

and to deliver great, you incentives you these of tell are you ours. these focus all understand is the margin I'll things, a also, that what these got But all-in see and marketing but we

measurements out week this trained. look to door, them clients mission. February people track in those of there's here, get that been from I before. into retention them flew the but on how products in percentage Michigan, of services middle use we beautiful, way but flew of and training, success It's because here the more in XXX we do how still UWM getting have for, they're Eric, and know what out over brokers so the LOs And freezing do the alone business with it's at our and here they you've I of their bought get this, we [indiscernible]

helps ways grow which a business, works that this helps And the about how investing them of more do, then make analytics so like then And investments. which -- a a detail get layman's and have detail those in are of it what very some of way It's giving those drives price team business, UWM. have their them we you that them it. beyond people that Once it incentive which that's to might measure drives understand again, I how I'm saying we happen. actually do

small so And little a thing.

If of like October, run you in the $XX missed it's like a look overnight, doubled even with and $XX we it refi not at really like billion pre-talk. I like kind in -- to We're like. billion a rate

dominate. so I So it's like things to outs? coach do do prepared, preparation do them they that getting to to cash can can train how and refi, brokers do how And streamlines I then them we do dominate do our how [indiscernible]? it's Or these ready or we about and teach them all how

Eric Hagen

-- actual your and mean how first if drop just to there rates -- at to quarter-over-quarter these were I stuff. today? like now, much you that just expect than is higher you in of seasonality a go always would gave looking the of volume even guidance Great versus right might demand these I that. being an margin here are rates? for they originations you there mean minimum thoughtful at the falloff answers. that volume I the baseline quarter. Appreciate attribute appreciate And

Mathew Ishbia

Eric. great it. your on question, no, I Yes, thoughts appreciate

to guided so XX year. last And we XX to

at did us remember say the now. I more guided what expect do what building. to each quarter. upon last would to trying like build I XX.X I we think numbers, materially These I but year, We're less in than to we're I it's don't quarter. first right

at numbers are look is we way really actually the now, it So right these good.

see time, those feel I volume. you you where I'm good able this about give in whatever to be range XX will do, and else think that. else, at numbers going like margin to to be XX But exceed whatever numbers. I'm to If we you, guide same things to you're not guide [indiscernible], on to real trying I'll going the really

first And just $XX let's billion, XXXX. to time been $XX billion, I know done that $XX in XXXX don't quarter. the besides and in do number, the call the last that's billion

of an don't $XX I mortgage last you because 'XX the happened, And the quarter. [indiscernible] done why it saying always knowing of from rates. XX quarters -- second anyone if so up. was kind think besides maybe it's and you what as And and the at in in holdover of years don't 'XX, company, find I'm first any We pick third billion it's it's 'XX But that is this amazing quarter. the look quarter, that's low think the

First quarter third quarter and always worst, awesome. worst. Fourth is is second second always the the are

Operator

comes Our with of line next Sommers question Jefferies. the Derek from

Derek Sommers

what call at saw volume. on in of mix to into the up follow question 'XX? Kind mix half expectations second are your To In the related heading we year, the first that of a purchase around guidance XX% for around half, XX%. the it

Mathew Ishbia

market? the mixture purchase the saying of you're And

Derek Sommers

market Both of and the UWM.

Mathew Ishbia

$XX there do billion of of can to year Can refi, And year, it's of understanding this, to much billion Okay. look Derek, it, else be the do $XXX on -- the literally go billion that we that's then we'll our dependent no did rates like we rates, like how tell Possibly. you $XXX what focus right? at will this at basis could do to interest $XXX the billion well, like wasn't and do refi, a so tenure, I margin, Yes. $XXX right? way do I X.X, this $XX If refi? billion, refi, $XX is do of it up where could this market one I able and $XXX of purchase, do billion it And is it margin. like of of Like year, or I basis how of mean is. purchases range to points it I billion right? XXX right? do billion points a And $XXX XX So we of I billion could refi. and we lot that's wide why

do will now. and..." do billion right market quarter, at drop do $XX if this prepared happens, if could else we're tomorrow, something that second the right, to -- everyone Like happens turns in say, actually we But margins. "Oh, we'll the well, good the and rates

So in of expenses. no still obviously. question making the it's to back that's investments we how very don't not the the from first we're count mass future. investments profitable, people, probably, about And -- these technology expenses, right? events, I while and comfortable fluctuation, control MSR and operations that's the business, making have It's those in And while which massive investments

to think And do good I so. we're ready that, so we and really really feel about

So the could for on rates XX% all a rates. XX%, to far like It purchase, XX%, if could to dictated and it's rate refi flip higher then But XX-XX. at the XX% to enough. XX-XX us, purchase go predict it's it hard number, XX% drop

Derek Sommers

Got what's it. servicing trends? of kind UPB to -- relative how origination levels just Helpful commentary there. approach your managing to And current

Mathew Ishbia

Yes.

this do we to going We just And the retain very very say, time. all one the level could it look at So we're a There's But want we servicing do a that we whether lot our through very, high well. only originations. process that goes things it well. all. there sell. it monitor at could as year, asset closely. probably look understand And the double asset We we're the as right? go book up opportunistically that servicing volume over of originating We new the We with perspective such a we still decide at. out

X sometimes we those multiple, people retain we look of the some really asset And feel sell time, if numbers it But people pay right? at well, looking X about to because and paying numbers. then not, a the And going they're are at these for the general. us like good at we asset. when in so are We it same I'll multiple,

act, it's building portfolio servicing cash grow. the so helping And time, balancing and and our at our a while consumption, same continue to understanding cash brokers

it. feel can good I the tomorrow, where at what because in vision of about say, at look every strategy tell all we like the stuff, is. we is, And we're right I can And change, that's but how I'll you it, me So we're look could and that the business. at day and the ask weeds now. it modify that's what could something right? We you

Operator

from come KBW. will question next George Our line with Bose the of

Bose George

on you guys might Actually, I sales? of on you -- that debt, do those lot the that liquidity MSR issued kind up have Or your change you down mean, how just are on that lot might following sheet, paid of terms given independent cash of line. MSR. you've you in Does question the warehouse obviously X divisions? what a a balance of

Mathew Ishbia

tied data, Everything but So right, everything is is right? it, the part drives the equation, understanding marketplace. the of into the besides equation, conversations, the nothing

And comes to answer through so going what into it's question, hard thing. like the the but

meet things. a to have everyone on with We risk make these committee. We organizationally decisions

depends all so right can calls number" it" say, back someone I coming so and are And cash, bump we'll situation. an you $XX and "Okay, now things it right, it. exact then to we'll million we'll "okay, those on do of give say, the right? deal all the the for to MSR And this answer extra well, that to option

continuously it. us make make we MSRs part is it. we nice actually like The It's on for

makes originate make the else we levels at it So it. one no -- we

and time. buy we trying get something to that any is more, it make. right, So make can therefore, go I everyone else

one the And month, quarter, every make every so single originates levers we do. single we when more else no go

where asset. the originate. single concern single the number all they're replenish on selling, day. constantly therefore, much every -- excess, numbers sell much not it's how sell we so so every as and can making it based or we it we and We our decisions moves originating aspects And on other like they not. The whether places but of are oh, or of month, their MSRs materially but we at a we're MSR look sold make And not

Bose George

think, without was I just sense. Okay. that increasing scenario? going fixed in fixed $XXX a Yes, you I in think to [indiscernible] good about to, billion, there then actually, sort expenses. curious, could of originate back Andrew versus way makes And variable is

Mathew Ishbia

a and mean, feel figure we're all trying Not much numbers long Obviously, really. model, there's bottom from will sometimes ways we're less but about then variable costs don't We in out a good really lot respect file. report wise. which to fixed prepared variable fixed and realize. hit up expense every there's the variable position the I every you do I -- have operationally obviously single all expense a and or these credit understand, expenses line. fixed these on But the we go how -- are really great time. expenses. things And there a to of But as

any can't prepared that I think each the to will like like and it's market up for they -- or that so look moves, show stuff right? not our excessively huge, the able you at and in gain expenses because so I which but if by. and And a billion the more quarter, that pass prepared go way. although a you if then positive go else huge like come in like we're variable expenses fixed will sheet that, that month, or what statement that's margin difference make whatever does, we're from And Like is is low -- be happens, XXXX a come keep on miss our that that is to their example but -- than income up, you on sale window, you're happens, when plus things volume going on why the these balance

what expenses be it, to if a amount going to you hitting little money not but that a prepared. which more be variable bottom huge it's number normal prepared and relative it's of volume, we're going so the more And do to for. is big than are are line, There a

Operator

of Sandler. next Brad question from comes line Capuzzi with Piper the Our

Bradley Capuzzi

on was out about you channel, updates guys pricing been broker a on your dynamics some any hold strong if you're I peers wondering Obviously, very if has it playing have talking if the but had channel. talk within to UWM any been of competition? has rational about and increased the seeing obviously wanted Just the

Mathew Ishbia

Yes.

I you've our channel broker growing. but [indiscernible] And I is broker thought seems channel you into It's business. is to with you've understand don't the we it, be went been would you. how a that It's grow winning. Brad, But little about know in office I the public. long doing for the growing. about. So been probably like think, than growing faster it almost doubled when honest it's It crazy said even to it talk X I years, it's bit

can roadshow, I thought No pull my said said one would else's stuff, and to as road to going wholesale as focus has. so it's all it show and And it growing. go on it everyone they're the grow you because back everyone much and

other they company, increase good these At to guys they're brokers. okay. you. I with play the and the I and kind any like "Oh it, it again." have any And it's competition in honest I not can't And use same the say, time, come time time, be into going of I same everyone use these just with broker so when it. it's we compete they and a my try can't to love them the us only pricing gosh, seen lenders, love says and for get to because at

clear. very are We

business saw year-over-year. -- did more year-over-year, XX% actually XX% almost and up margins as we you were Our more

margins, day. brokers, day wholesale is to channel. And going us. Everyone are brokers are They're control set you, helping wants all and the win set daily, to everyone follows yes, we and takes tell coming it I them is that game follow it with willing we it. everyone none and our for partnership, of do grow, what technology, margins and we what in takes. be every but to else so the And them the I involved

We and leader, close. the it's are not

for But great competition. the

up, I ask. move that targets so important they that can the think price tell stuff, that you it's all you

the go right? We're move probably been ours [indiscernible], and saying But they've take up to we're going back just UWM should to way, we're by so a the is and stuff to You all People to, [indiscernible] to o it you're #X come wholesale be anyways, for because down. silos, wants want going that be like years, plot? that #X wholesale, going yourself.

We XX% are almost market. of the

excited about the best is Those about loan join faster it. the owners but So because brokers part whole went growing easier. they're that just competition, officers I to broker-owners. through are are they're We love thing we're Brokers cheaper, the and winning. or leaving retail

And going only brokers to with administration, the new more. even it's help

to brokers You with it's and help keep to grow, watch going out, growing we're going them.

Bradley Capuzzi

guys can then And Do you you any year? XXXX? of external you this in about on have put hedges hedge hedges continue revenue on just talk And the rate these target interest expect to a ratio?

Mathew Ishbia

down that election volatility that and to on process off do in we'll we sure some look while safety at a there's both stuff But with market of Yes. type to looked the lot No, some make stuff. and going wanted had that's And on. there's we business, way is at it not really continue we we The those some of of I is even hedges. stuff pulled pulled December. we markets. And the during security to the up and volatility that smart in ways, understand

what said, it, we volatility, but you protecting the knew business, stuff regulatory that happen understanding the And don't that's not at we looked the it. at presidential markets, how at with hedges not along who tied other as to it understand like so look with me, I elections, looked would but we do have things.

time, And of election, December not made part And back that. equation make place on XXXX as after forward tomorrow with decisions so the different that's this -- at to as but we all meet them we at we but a have do those point. go time, for put can of we not in the decision the not and same the

Operator

next from will Doug the Harter question come Our of line with UBS.

Douglas Harter

level you think how Hoping of equity run leverage, is went up bit outlook funding kind to for kind about the and of the little debt you about a your efficient talk need this of net you business? could what

Mathew Ishbia

out Doug. finance obviously top to really is at make at about all But don't Appreciate which team, income. continue a look the about all stuff this day, every earning business the pay great level question. important. CFO, that things our We shareholders, in I details. these talking that We obviously the impacts on think talking everyone you're do. these we Thanks, Network [indiscernible]. should to be we'll is all We dividend of

different the things, the Of all we things metrics have course, those We'll but liquidity earn income. have important. to meet UWM. most at Having is we're and to important, all continue as things and building those the is capital we going up

have with we're the selling to is, some money higher MSRs. higher more of At you because being ones make originating and access selling the lines of we're the these are of and a only people We on time, MSR getting bidding lot numbers them. credit liquidity truth and same because

you but So we're it ratios feel quarter, in only really, think we about position, our strong in month, general, And about really it. future are our we stand. however all really not for a well. want And monitor of strong years year where for as this single to -- and every we good really

Operator

Adelson come Jeff with will of question next Stanley. from Our line Morgan the

Jeffrey Adelson

the through last lot Obviously, the CFPB, of cetera. reform, [indiscernible] today. different GSE comped with changes of new like flow been agencies administration place seeing et coming out on at some coming quarter, there's the of a news various new Matt, changes you talk the with in we're

and coming your out industry? give regulatory latest maybe mortgage what and that the maybe an to the see on political flows here, in front how views update us Just United broader you

Mathew Ishbia

positive, I with honest you. No, Yes. to very it's think be all

of done and So in going he President lot to said do. things come a he's Trump's

he's think people place. some I good put in really

think FHFA huge they're the new a not I director, confirmed yet, industry. think industry, but from who which the for I comes is our success

Director, which they before. CFPB had New a different what focus was than

X making doing Trump, I bullish or massive and And obviously, things for our and next massive, leading President think doing are the things for and things. said on these you those years, I'm do things the place cuts all things extremely to Trump's industry. with X wins President different with

positive. all upside, all it's think I

thing it to that question your lot how about. talk which is interest you only impact want The of a does rates,

a better interest probably be was to positive XXXX, opportunities rates place. past If positive this be interest it still because lower And to will are, impact so you like doesn't bull it the spots, My the great 'XX. these well, and honestly, me I'll there they positively, entity seen industry. of certain uptick. haven't want will connection some expenses it's but then interest run not quite impacts disrespect if a is a where And of since lower in just say don't leaders I people, in

things new better so better. these new got Director we director HUD before. All only be CFPB better. be will better. [indiscernible] new be And FHFA it's will directors be will better. will The had The to The than

about good I have in the say, of is opportunities years." industry monitoring industry X years, a pretty Now they our last heck did feel than last anyone So had "Oh, a upside going would the better to it. and job. we X the

think and things happy Trump So better, is I hopefully doing America to lead I'm great if going with but good it's for have it. good to And only a leader be do our industry not things. It general. is in President

Jeffrey Adelson

the maybe here. some can would action the us the float of thinking some rest And you've year here? acquisitions on to I achieve give an you for recent just update or to taken methods? know that. strategy looking that be via other guys the you Just of maybe increase But on already from

Mathew Ishbia

years It's all at to we'll keep me We look do your appreciate UWM price. time, more price at and people that a stock winning. does, us. too, target understand price silly, Yes. It's [indiscernible] is well. that, how Even at silliness. going stock once sell with for again, as the hard to into or everything. low. do to things there anything going No, and do grow important. But time, buy better. same we'll is I continue We're out better. this Getting is still the understand what at make it. But we're look And the to float we We everything

have I have will more yes, plans strategies it. so That's float, And and we and first. around

is right? when there. to And third, acquisitions, team. finally, and part Second, of out and things, UWM then regardless be there's look of at like I People yes, we everything, our these wins at opportunities want look

a really about this that talk and growth the are we some every to want the same bit from quarter return people in UWM And but single I if it guys winning about single having. and Like of the month, at the price, doesn't time, stuff, stock matter little we're teased you kind invest dividend. of because that a every anyone gets massive

that one. had there's a don't than think there. is right? X than a there's out human we X, nobody that last doesn't to I so years going have being no think the There's better X or industry the And

no That's understand X hey, X next just to there's are you factual. be the way the been worse. have if So years that, the trough, last going that,

So make grow, better will all Opportunities grow, price like we're all we're politics is better more going float win. money. to regulatory. it's the better. Brokers will UWM will grow going will Like will The to [indiscernible], grow. upside, stuff, stock better better, grow. better,

it at way And months, Does tomorrow? look right all all X that months, months, X than the this upside it's on would there's upset they And will years. X that months, now? so XX say call next this in smart have in person don't better room in do last the be XX is the the but X I years. Or no it to X think better happen or

Operator

of Instructions] Citizens. from [Operator line Goberman Mikhail come will with next question Our the

Mikhail Goberman

theme, valuations X% to this down hypothetical X side your an the sweet the down and between the that and on interplay side that continues maybe you of XX. servicing of Supposing follow-up servicing a how affect and earlier bond spot How your origination mentioned earnings range you even Just business, of the rally into there? do business earlier scenario. see would specifically guys

Mathew Ishbia

to is going of think borrowers which while everybody. purchases, trillion going $X trillion, thing or Yes, love drop making you're and a hypothetical XX sudden to and and what lot. that with it's drops why rate question. situation is positive tenure also a I of great the are affordable for more great $X.X that I a No, of massive. want stuff the where be advantage optimistic a to X thinking refinance for talk and to we take because In all XXX about

the what you're -- thing is just first and the So to you'll a issue. -- thing interplay between across timing only on originations run MSR run valuations going

hypothetical March and rate MSRs -- drop of if the a So have huge originations the huge next XX, happened a write-down won't you of that write-up you're going second quarter. until to have

that like, made and going there's happens going you're MSRs -- million $XXX on of then and -- we of be understand not example, you Now quarter we X, it is going you to what write-down be as a originations, this book. like, there's to an it and it's to April to interplay, if replenishing million okay, of big $XXX going it's and MSR had a see hey,

But So it. will a how look at opportunity we huge look volumes at because and as that's margins go up. I it

billion that back margin at Now other prepared other talked higher to they're got take my in earlier, of that we the advantage about, to players same $XX quarter book, not but to able to comment you've players be it. have a servicing dynamic do

huge. to everything have really We're to I business the write-down, going are flat board. originations, we can't prepared prepare make attention Obviously, again, of I it control -- don't flat that, pay be to our get and else. that. run across which you profits once kind can doesn't control -- for I you double MSR So can't because the I

we good you And selling originate also MSRs they why every originate about single makes so them but MSRs feel we People we because don't to them. never that, happen. selling But day, like what's so because can't and about that. we know can that's them really make going good sense feel

Jeffrey Adelson

going forward. Matt. luck Great. Best of Thanks,

Operator

to for call I the will over would Ishbia that And wrap to closing comments. back portion. up turn Matt like the Q&A

Mathew Ishbia

joining. had value of the some a and look about Hopefully, and with to you some you excited of Thank fantastic partnership of happening appreciate talking Have happening. quarter. you next what's vision. we good forward UWM, lot guys. We for things day. A on to very you support all We're at

Operator

conference concludes disconnect. you call, today's and may This now

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