CNFR - Earnings call transcript Q2 2020

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Operator

Good day and welcome to the Conifer Holdings, Inc. Q2 2020 Investor Conference Call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. [Operator Instructions] Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Equity The of Prior Group. Adam Please go ahead.

Adam Prior

and second quarter you yesterday. good close morning XXXX its issued Conifer financial market everyone. of Thank results the after

the via that Investor Conifer’s accompanies copies discussion today from can as On the available Relations as download-only management’s ir.cnfrh.com, website. to via is earnings or view well presentation of the or release find slide the which website, company’s download portion of you webcast

company’s as Actual except and underlying filings a asked and on and reports. result Before trends, may to to with SEC, the we the the future information, company’s that products company of these specifically started, the federal I get including with our otherwise. in subsequent anticipated whether as obligation constitute any results relating Form call laws, the update securities statements, and result financial disclaims on XX-K any its within forward-looking revise may risks new from respect our has associated well the subsidiaries. information, conference in time-to-time of the COVID-XX the Conifer uncertainties including that impact the economy made or described statements differ materially company from business business uncertainties the a to statements and in as developments or forward-looking our those with results forward-looking Conifer from as statements various meaning risks and risks historical and results and of statements including note the of this forward-looking statements its operations and

of Investor section a this of replay our will call addition, through the be Relations link website. on In provided a

accordance to data we earnings non-GAAP SEC Regulation possible comparable filings. accounting as our also is when in Statutory and in the will by measures GAAP. GAAP statutory release reconciled these of financial is accounting therefore During historical with and rules SEC measures non-GAAP measures, financial included prepared our not financial call, are this G. Reconciliations to defined discuss our

after remarks session Q&A a management’s conduct morning. will this prepared We

turn So Please go I Mr. to Jim Chief will Jim. with over that, the Petcoff, Executive and Chairman Officer. ahead, call

Jim Petcoff

Good Adam. everyone. you, morning, Thank

Brian. pandemic, On is with improving to the issued will the results in and in cover brief the of Due greater like Andy Conifer our a disruption over provide discuss second $X.XX earnings and period. the call the me then premiums Nick share coupled X% would of Harold overview, Conifer quarter. gross financial increased posted global in our underwriting the Nick, results, night, the I Despite quarter. Harold, change financials. today underwriting with due per of an for solid combination the for a the the by detail, investments, Last value will to written to equity

Our discipline results underwriting ongoing profitability. evidence tangible of are terms the of and reflect commitment our turning in us to corner

remains split lines. commercial business XX% largely than commercial, in Our with in personal and specialty XX% less over

a specialty market the have the emphasis in Over and be several where commercial niche our on business, can leader. increasing years, past placed we line, profitable company especially

we to our specialized but account which produce is This spread we and seek increase consistently anticipated. have in our our an clients. versus In risks penetration place in strategy meet evaluate allows our versus admitted areas addition, have We commercial business, underwriting believed is and serve, This the that are we also between short both across balance we in have business our markets advantage to and out the peers. insured lines pivot our specialty expertise, of only personal, long us criteria. accessing not our ability in ability underwriting to agents geographic a starting results country. within super to between over long-tail That

point, this premiums the premium market to would markets and general, was as to When lines commercial spoke like potential At top of insurance new comment last on to in uncertainty great I the business quarter. there COVID-XX. impacts take in X% we the overall. Our line were and of step May, up back the a a during deal

the continue We by the influences traumatic of across felt to globe. the reflect families on impacts individual and pandemic the

securely we early Our and result hearts was leveraging Early work get go investments that people from technology, quickly this by shifting we their home. service. sending in agents operations, saw no disruption in affected through out little COVID-XX to as together. safely to our insureds to remote all struggle thereby to on, proactive to and our and The our were

than have time. levels during difficult That agents employees our heard fact, are makes our we and we of that our service the needs providing and alike. overall meeting proud our extremely an ongoing me of the to incredibly higher In peers service are our commitment generally and insureds exceptional

are while have overall good the premium the of potential material sectors Although in in feel believe we seen sectors To-date, generally we gap, has we and of estimation about not filled business of other our a business plan economy such on our impact COVID profitability the been we our Conifer’s that mix plans impacted going that certain nor growth impact have evaluate of conservative by today. overall we forward, pandemic. business as

significantly claims about versus more year. Nick will earlier continue that to talk overall later. down In in fact, volumes be the

continuing majority favorable of As with have the our are ratios the effects, premiums shifted in our core to lines improve. loss we commercial

expense Coupled achieve us Those norms in loss at lines reflected in of around ratios our who cite the Those underwriting growth over over we we that where our from service. in continue have we our scale, those loss disruption this we drive expenses coupled area be streamline without time. saw consistently appropriate our will any quarter, ratio This to to while as can have continuing continue scale ROEs historical phase next shareholders loss will to operating for ultimately for time. possible personal achieve we seen have ratios as results should in drive and shows result With Conifer growth level produced color The Nick achieve in with today ratios time. operating to The followed will with consistently and was low with you the an uncertain profitability a make. commercial mid-XXs. ratios we each improvements decision beginning that, very heard returns, it Overall, with this me let selective investment during over our underwriting. but this combined reasonable improving underwriting improved to deliver well. a on solid some this turn emphasize

Nick Petcoff

quarter, as Thank clear developments you. several lockdown. the navigated became we the COVID-related second Through

than at running historical First, norms. we are seeing higher retention rates or

low we for value consistently Those mix personal of Conifer expect selective time. group business has retention in generate the June, at them XX%. for believe is in market a a admittedly, month commercial, We for have be where distinct focusing business both that in have rates been dwelling we markets were on dynamics our substantial we for in lines. but that growing shifting profitable the value proposition been shift going business and The Also, value effort us of we keep while forward. to to process specialty growth to that runway shareholders competitive running submission several saw our over quarters share. we mind have to increased markets fact, improving mix and growth In our attribute our correct

has on were monthly line solid, Secondly, while lockdown since began. claims basis a been the top our down the overall

by or In terms is the XX% Comparing largely down severity of down fact, year, in claims per totals as monthly overall to average. more in earlier total lockdown frequency in the well. from are period a month on we

with our but classes, Lastly, line, signs reported seeing gross in where quarterly XX% of On and that are are appropriate, X.X%. in the we are for personal are E&S achieving an grew we approximately grew accident increases most overall the markets on XX%. we premium year our we Both hardening, in lines written space. that an posting rate quarter. lines certain increases profitable Commercial particularly combined lines serve lines personal X% top basis definitely

for business insured of represents artisan written delivering other commercial gross largely select admitted small of commercial classes coverage small contractors, commercial XX% clients business and among auto business. premiums approximately and solutions, of and commercial Our E&S consists

with takeout our to Throughout have on options quick-service policies we insureds establishments restaurant the during in-house quick-service little work the many Overall, helping many restaurants. includes of other and helps quarter. we longer restaurants In business. their position offering COVID-XX from a note the important are and It’s with capability. effect offset our stemming drive-thru which and customers taverns restaurants, relatively casual disruption more implications on for pandemic to term segment, the continued on marketing challenges, addition, of hospitality mainly the strong saw that we and understand bars the This reliant were in to dining.

business, segment. on in niche is and classes. across priority by strong saw we underserved biggest growth specialty particularly driven This our was As On in always, our our business small position service E&S premiums products. commercial higher strengthening our customer our

While see write premium increases states, we premium select existing number largest and our including home policy in new which growth all potential is XX we and of we space. on geographically continue state of strong states, see our growth our rate commercial to in new a accounts. for Overall, opportunities commercial Michigan, for

we pleased in see with selective loss were growth the pleased we to trends. equally improvement period, While the during are

which in excellent period. loss X% approximately represents points by result of gross for premiums overall ratio well, the improved our lines written Our an XX.X overall. as personal percentage We business reported our underwriting

our premium For mainly This and discussing to a away improved also is of business the dwelling from over largely to focused instead. reflects that to will our ratio fewer reduction due low now wind exposed The hand lines exposed discussion personal the Florida business, cat quarters we reduction was financials. we Harold now. business low lines provide premium, to the Meloche XX%. on to personal have several quarter, in I performance value exposed wind been overall our of in for correlated improved loss call but claims dwelling as firmly value directly

Harold Meloche

certainly for X.X% our Nick to quarter, the filings results will ratio and to gross period, quarter on year second Conifer Nick. you, second having I detailed encourage the reported and XX.X% will underwriting Jim a $XX.X in million, review of with greater In improvement in detail. website XXX.X% XXXX. we in in premiums, the XX.X loss first to year focus of and points. premiums results. of the to XX.X% presentation prior Thank compared breakout the I note XXX% investors financial in increased the period improvement written XXX% an quickly and the the Conifer’s our combined percentage compared a was quarter, ratio on prior company’s significant

scale appropriate ratio premiums. reductions reinstatement have We some related have time. we the a initiatives do second quarter, costs we the a will expense to grow several closer favorable reinsurance as Moving of to expense over periods included XX.X% impact past during expense to believe expect that and our over ratio ratio, flat reported achieve implemented streamline to which we

reduction today We continue foster as expense well. to initiatives

an Our is ratio $XXX,XXX prior short-term gains million me, or period year to income Net in to the – the from $XXX,XXX goal net during $XXX,XXX, investment expense compared prior down under second and the quarter get $XXX,XXX year in excuse period. was $X.X at were to XX%. realized

in During change value compared a the COVID-XX million in largely following a the increase in the the of first $X.X the quarter, $X.X the $X.X to million equity decline of equity period This company in year was to the loss reported prior markets, and of of relating investments the first a a the million from pandemic. quarter gain loss in XXXX. to quarter recovery of related fair

rebound also approximately our $X within saw in of our unrealized bond million. portfolio a gains We

duration average and a X.X Our tax quality an with income X.X%. investments of majority with AA, fixed are the average credit an of equivalent years of yield conservatively in securities, managed

to $X.X net of result net share $X.XX of As a $X.XX million prior a return $X.X reported the profitability, million per compared company per share or the of in income the to above, or reporting period. year loss

year million were Cash end. the Moving We investments book $XXX in end quarter. total were this sheet, reported at $XXX million million $XXX and increase a end. assets to compared value nice million year to June XX, to $XXX at balance at quarter total at XXXX compared

at quarter. per $X.XX at share was March value book valuation the had company’s to Our sequential quarter per a share tax allowance assets XX, end up against compared over We $X.XX to this per for quarter deferred our per value. end to book I in closing not represents remarks. like share it Jim $X.XX at that that, turn with reflected would And over of back for $X.XX and XX% share was

Jim Petcoff

the our incredibly as our and the it’s humbled and operating carriers our we Harold. with shareholders. would discuss selectively Nick. benefit company profits employees was we good Thanks, both for have to of quarter the people of like strength we of This here reflects the sustainable generating often partners, closing, their it to the strengths the Thanks a performance have agents the Insurance for equally to our we to company that grow during discuss Conifer. seek commitment In relationships I feel and proud of been note but important also of destruction. at long-term

with us time Our relationships they at strengthen our would need any people to take have us a And Operator? helped when arguably most. and agents the now, I like questions. insureds

Operator

will session. now go Piper will come question-and-answer [Operator question We from Paul with begin Sandler. Our Newsome the Please ahead. Instructions] first

Paul Newsome

Good morning. well. Hope everyone is staying

Jim Petcoff

about how you? Yes,

Paul Newsome

a been you could – thoughts I kind expense expense fine. outlook with while? target ratio that I hoping have for and know just update level was you and Doing the of on working us respectively,

Jim Petcoff

increase costs. bit lowered in reinsurance, we we going more overall little general, premium just but our in premium not was accent our but increased earned was – earned Harold am reinsurance rates, and net to That the to less and a the paying exposure. little we with have some down a you are our have numbers, might I therefore Well, give in retentions due

had and drove we do, every our some benefit and are we they reinstatement which the down – those earned premiums settle Irma we claims Hurricane still getting premium Secondly, of net well. as time have having

to were are movement. on we in into same. go expense commission headwinds or on we From continuing a place annualized. – last the it. So, down to we those efforts has that we quarterly had year, fixed significant going rate expenses are basically below And basis core we continue to equal have standpoint, stayed the The

increasing, rid earned premium Irma our going guess having see premium and we sides positive as forward. net we net of earned the premium see the getting So, in I growth the dissipate, lowering

anything to want to So you Harold, that? do add

Harold Meloche

costs covered think do which the next more like some or of I the Actually, really over see point few had, have reinsurance you this now down We expense mean, ratio. is add the the trending quarters. biggest did additional to entire I it. thing right we that to an expect

get more we the net I need XX way premium. think for us to to do earned though all

Paul Newsome

it’s us better It makes us more came a years in sense development of sense. reserve give little on from sources bit to Could just you and particular? a color give and the to where

Jim Petcoff

this? you Nick, want to do

Nick Petcoff

‘XX/XX we did in into the out probably and well. for from of we Florida a business, the years really has commercial of the one to driver, One Sure. drivers development gone day, that in down us of telling business on was prior repo tort so quarter rates by that some diminish some of was current do raised some as of are quarter-over-quarter, in from in was development, for were the we as commercial quarter. again, drivers. ‘XX, the That but ‘XX driven years drivers that have one positive from we development declining, the are Those auto our have our largest hospitality program the prior us, claims that environment program auto did see those down see primarily and significantly the We prior on prior but larger significantly. some but did but we two and see auto and commercial some liability they ‘XX from larger gone –

are less. and Our think to, prior claims XXXX I claims down XXX

are expect closing that moving those we hope So and out forward. and see diminish to quickly pretty

Jim Petcoff

roaming see talk thing about and one add that? how probably Nick to might And to you want you is other statutes

Nick Petcoff

environment, are tougher up in running statute, particular, it’s of in of statutes. against particularly so X-year a we Yes, has sort Florida, where one those tort XXXX been the which

influx anticipate claims. levels just existing then out we some necessarily don’t and of and a function So have we of additional closing more It’s an been the claims helpful. in COVID

of closing courts pressure see we claims. and some acceleration that put seen we has older that, out and As in like closed some things on an plaintiffattorneys have those

Paul Newsome

like as despite lot in you recession. you’ve wanted that just go you on and it revenue seem customers like or like think has top of liability like bankruptcies impact seem or the of it had such difficulties away Do the like hold impact the looks it like a pretty line such up businesses? looks those minimal had doesn’t doesn’t liquor you will it from It from really

Jim Petcoff

government business federal paying them and kept lot their a And up. does people now of probably Our things this in But to premiums. lot a their open with. agree of I don’t that lot think of thing, are starting us things kept a PTP

high that the were at specifically dip on have people numbers a premiums We the think is do have taverns were surprised up deferred the hospitality in premiums. actually that caught. We their going Yes, XX% sector bar we bought restaurant have we some the point? to we

continue optimistic the for is very going yet. But that think? way I it’s We I way haven’t the think you we not challenging going are don’t it it’s same on everybody to we that know, think PTP And seen the to sector. be

Nick Petcoff

there would of Yes. taking thing and And the lockdown. the one add taverns I of sort certainly have the brunt is bars

apps While deal that. are lockdown they Eats ordering service better the to like we like are on with franchise already had through setups things quick restaurants DoorDash, write that restaurants Uber the

liability bar weather through that. storm ready they as little also to to better a bit service were had able more they they Certainly is were liquor in the impacted go have been mandatory. drive So so patterns thru the resilient Michigan

liquor and certainly, a here lot there. northern option the optimistic, license those I fall we but their very but if been into to of uncertainty point, us Jim’s cartridge, less states, So, and they sticky seating their, losing think go of as are yes, cautiously becomes liquor maintain don’t for businesses that’s risk outdoor is so we some winter, of there an as the

Paul Newsome

Thank the for Right. the appreciate call. answers. you Really

Jim Petcoff

Thanks, Paul.

Operator

[Operator our question Scattergood. from will go & next Please Farnam ahead. Bob Boenning Instructions] come with

Bob Farnam

to Hi, sounds or what just you that actually quarter? drive thru of what with open shut so have businesses there. completely like it had your Good stayed continue question for do you of hospitality down want hospitality morning. risks that I idea what just on a that either lot so down slimmed I to of percentage had an the

Jim Petcoff

give going XX%. and gives Nick I to he say, will a XX% would his and guess but to okay, is be This guess my I

Nick Petcoff

could from guess drive insurances from in of some app, down, Yes, moved that’s had or and almost as of take heard what have we in ability sort good almost, I our mentioned think agents have I shut before, I to of But to as there. terms terms has a everyone delivery seating. apps, is of through or, like our outdoor out the

So certainly, for bottom I some couple would bars taverns to probably of say, a certainly that readjust April had of the kind of operations was those of weeks.

Sometimes businesses stopped three we weeks. to two

liquor and what slimmed from a or have was they In readjusting, reopen, were running. percentage, reorganizing they they they other maintained. am and vast lot heard insurance that a of of I were cases, that that, to they short to expenses restaurant, but operations, the things there a that point down statutes have. that back at liability While of or the and be lived they it or are top very where heard financial quick-service probably XX% choice other of the have business at either, Certainly but up were thankfully, was due seems pretty restrictions have a two their list of have of the we don’t their and back the guessing week then now more majority sort this I high that than open, they

have extremely which been Certainly, business it’s So, levels high, is new the great. been down. submissions retention

year-over-year our than terms are book, X% in normal. on We but higher business, are hospitality I think retention of levels the new down

Jim Petcoff

the days, not the days who week other week, think Northern in And but probably from week this he his line doing to because of in is be want a X workers. he but they bonus. outside less one, carry-outs. couple inside, restaurant anybody, he gone X No hire people days going and I He And a workers. find X also because is friend said He a is they it’s overall bottom more he what’s that has has can’t Michigan. more areas Michigan. you a getting can’t were down, but $XXX anecdotal, in rural sales less indicative in to changed. are he going then have on open has the if has And the doesn’t a but I owns the PPP,

Bob Farnam

Right.

Nick Petcoff

to balanced percentage this think organization, I obviously a of mind especially too of benefit business the commercial. in one things being is across And of a as overall the keep

that worth necessarily not of because it’s here a a it trick bundling nature talking there perspective obviously, product and we per So, it’s is be have say. the might line pony one that about not mono from what to,

Jim Petcoff

to accommodations they Yes. And money that limits, had lower closed have made it we some liability were businesses some while save order though in way.

liability, We there have seen altogether dimension on coverages general some order removed liquor products all retain property not But to entire another and account does the some just coverage insurance. policy an their point, the the and essentially. of add out one to we liability of are in save and us for expense to drop ancillary those the having Brian’s

Bob Farnam

their retention like increases? so positive, but provide sounds of getting terms it on was – been yes, in maybe more sounds what pretty And details it – good. Alright, you rate have

Jim Petcoff

Yes.

business rate are on the that been of at mid-single given digits, the isn’t have basis we and most So, on up not property aspect in markets, the look strong. we seen When surprising this has we E&S sort and of are exposed tightening in you cat have heavily side a we some areas. which it seen

then that high marketplace. insured climate, General the on mid-single-digits, dramatically located. is It’s less state pretty the can vary where the determined the geography that’s that and line And or think liability but in judicial more single-digits. reasonable about I by in So, overall. pretty is heavily with auto commercial based is

that of while little in X some down we the side, better a past the on X are bit maybe increase amount of climates in still We rate achieved over flat, tightening marketplace the still seeing guess the increases are to judicial would that business. years, I – closer I say to up. that of the performing its line is really, slightly in the seeing GL

Bob Farnam

for ratio hopefully getting consider last your question Okay, Nick. XX% to get expense be do below you great. scale, that, down Thanks you or when for about appropriate me, the to And talking so to appropriate what guys are scale? you

Nick Petcoff

Mid-XXs. Scale?

Bob Farnam

scale. Yes, Yes. premium

Nick Petcoff

$XX That’s increases rate growth would premium additional – in few would increases an our be we those million easily our earned may into there of us are premium get additional to of get rate get numbers and and in hoping quarters. with outside

Bob Farnam

Right.

thanks for guys. Okay, answers the

Operator

Our Greg ahead. Please next Raymond James. Peters question will come go with from

Greg Peters

about Yes. your of have business make curious this any I talking your that the you sized Good because a middle markets automated just it morning. the your small, I your introduced seeing area? target carriers of any agents easier and underwriting products larger and, direct about more a wondering or market that if Hey, affect commercial trying all? number are the that Are commercial to of streamline almost and was am approach, consumer age process, at

Jim Petcoff

liquor we Yes, most quick that products. some would that marketplaces say there, restaurants that see liability, BOP-type agents. necessarily in do pretty have would of I And about small the you commercial probably in products, it’s certain the service see much that exposure do our by we have common be mentioned area we have, you seen don’t where certainly trend

streamline but some really for the we liability that liquor geared the have more introduced On agents things process. side, to to

we looking at forward, side strong carefully We and distribution, direction to moving more are if the that agency are go feel are of that’s we in something that we we certainly looking is options independent something obviously seeing supporters very commercial but than and BOP that monitoring in. the at, it’s the want

Greg Peters

are The from another to are a sense, own? their you feedback marketplace these your products or it’s hold just do that share get they suggesting competitor agents, direct they give they can and losing market they you

Jim Petcoff

can the a, of perspective, lost like issue been from is It’s, more their accounts think overwhelming that brought just anecdotal that it’s it competitor of think been, another have that I at I been think hasn’t a Yes, up. an think certainly to comes means, any pitch model. I but direct it’s point occasionally. something But up a it’s a where more I not by for of is fever most part, it a

so it’s little quick service experience think it’s dealing do E&S because the agents lot to more dynamic with are there’s yet we than a side, the that would of maybe on maybe a a that. so bit otherwise us, gotten than I the other personalized we for a little on addition, be used bit probably less really more in impactful hasn’t fringes and it the so there have restaurants. are

Greg Peters

to the in reduced what trying your what what, accident book result activity. frequency, your lower in abnormal Got or quarter, it economic just before. you book, where second just were was back am know you the whether personalized of is, in and out commercial And at we it’s on, trends trying sustainable versus to commenting of ultimately your is quarter. a guess in frequency the some I it. as and will of business quarter concept results the second first your the improved I revert get I was nicely I hoping could to the parse revisit

Jim Petcoff

Well, off it’s many we southeast of lines while Florida lot and have where judicial geography, was entire opportunity run have the policies those changed back we us some of like halo gave type have a not an frequency, out to And of of the areas where COVID before, going to lower other an business have revert to areas. our of we we business, different mix because a are it and focus.

mix it and the to going over when we were business business loss go mix it’s not going not we ratios, where to as before, our they're The confident look we you good. on based was to have historical near ratios historical look back loss business, the but And at today have so they we’re geography are loss when I, of not go basis, are back an we anywhere to when that mix ratios what the before. today at the we this tick needed when going pretty on are uptick on

number So you that, when or premiums down not maintain claims we all to the the have COVID, down. liquor go to any claims, their they are building license, you but and their have having and maintain going they confidence they the to in businesses building own are shut obviously, the they because are have leasing either of

If going you liquor, with. are not are it have you serving not to

but the – our those up, liquor has Pennsylvania, other that law than which back will changed in So pick good experience XXXX. been always

I I’d answer that’s mean, that. how So,

We of are we mix today. confident in the have business

added lines. new couple a have We of

retentions We to reinsurance a have lowered us in put position. stronger our

So, we are. confident pretty we are where

Greg Peters

You your am just how structure year follow-up reinsurance with this than about I lowered retentions, and expensive more changed last? just reinsurance is your it curious that,

Jim Petcoff

$X.X and why down really to the retaining – depending expensive. of we it’s or $XXX,XXX That’s we $XXX,XXX on line Instead more of were million now business. are

Greg Peters

the but profitability Got would company, quarter last this be it. report make question just quarter. position a doesn’t guess capital trend, one did I the you of the

you you that’s your a an Can the us good positioned how to So is writing? position capital are give sign. on premium update relative

Harold Meloche

Well, it’s well. positioned

that. than less are We still

are and Insurance less X.X stats, is than books, Conifer around to growth, a capital X but White has basically, up. the net there. bit company they X right are – On the is and similar that’s the different going the statutory X we And still to still Company Pine little

the like that XX% line whole or anything about that. term, in new we near growing So we not are during of business and confident are talking

mix We we we of are low expect just growing single-digits, current double-digits business growth. high have in the and

Greg Peters

answers. it. Got the Thanks for

Operator

session. over conference This would to any the like no showing for this remarks. further turn am time. closing conclude I back to questions Q&A Jim will Petcoff our at I

Jim Petcoff

the for I the the listen three in want of our believe you to time we to taking questions and to the we old story. We are We position. thank a claims. to do good trying believe do actively today closeout are

lines won’t timeframe to personal done, personal a grew didn’t we but We now good year that the to at is there we say to I XX% get about accident growing be back said lines, now, continue can experiences talk see expect the business are book book good, development in So exceptionally much things than and the a good performing when especially as we I pretty to in that those grow. but but that’s the and position.

So we say didn’t optimistic. are cautiously I even optimistic.

future that optimistic We the bright. are is

you. thank So,

Operator

you conference now has Thank for today’s concluded. presentation. attending The

disconnect. You now may

Conifer (CNFR) 13 Aug 202020 Q2 Earnings call transcript