Kinsale Capital (KNSL) 17 Feb 232022 Q4 Earnings call transcript

Company Profile

Participants

Michael Kehoe	President and Chief Executive Officer
Bryan Petrucelli	Chief Financial Officer
Brian Haney	Chief Operating Officer
Mike Zaremski	BMO
Mark Hughes	Truist
Casey Alexander	Compass Point
Andrew Anderson	Jefferies
Pablo Singzon	J.P. Morgan
Rowland Mayor	RBC Capital Markets

Call transcript

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Operator

[Starts Abruptly] Before we get started, let me remind everyone that through the course of the teleconference, Kinsale's management may make comments that reflect their intentions, beliefs, and expectations for the future.

As always, these forward-looking statements are subject to certain risk factors, which could cause actual results to differ materially. These risk factors are listed in the company's various SEC filings, including the 2021 Annual Report on Form 10-K, which should be reviewed carefully. The company has furnished a Form 8-K with the Securities and Exchange Commission that contains the press release announcing its fourth quarter results.

Kinsale's management may also reference certain non-GAAP financial measures in the call today. of which can company's is www.kinsalecapitalgroup.com. GAAP the found website of release, press available reconciliation these be measures in at A at the

will Kinsale's over Michael I Please the CEO, Kehoe. sir. and Mr. to ahead, go turn now President conference

Michael Kehoe

morning, good and operator, you, everyone. Thank

with Kinsale's few both comments any we'll on Each Haney, and Officer, Officer, Chief questions Bryan will to may us. Operating then Petrucelli, Brian of have that Financial us Chief and are me. a for you make move

unique quarter, earnings posted by the operating underwriting and rate market, increased E&S of combined strong by of on XX% fourth XXXX results all share the new grew model In equity allows The for premium costs. and business Kinsale's driven of a results return and of XX%. meaningful low by continues also per principally quarter boosted an ratio increases gross a operating the disciplined XX%. written are for that these and inflow We exposure to company growth. experience The are XX.X% believe Kinsale's by technology-driven which favorable business for

And a to position. continue for have the raise rates now. trend establish reserve of balance cost we to a been conservative confidence in fashion. continues level doing Investors four future and high years loss losses have reserves for Kinsale's sheet Kinsale as above we should in

market disruptions those E&S of is turning part quickly Kinsale's and company, an to into success As opportunities. long-term disruptions reacting

business at the Over our of to in rapid market the Kinsale rate. the grow even today, is taking last of disruption advantage of continuing couple years and book a property

of in Southeastern accounts, mindful United are States. volatility the we property properties associated the especially hurricane-exposed always, with As

manage taking. maintain on being most business reinsurance policy risks we of we're writing our for program, substantial well than geographic Although we and limits the model ever, property concentration we portfolio we carefully, paid a strict regularly, the more purchased limits we business, we importantly, the are are

allow book. to limit and capture steps the attractive continuing us these return write business an All of of to while volatility the the

to with below XX% XX% In meaningful our exposure. having property gross under any gross amounted hurricane of XXXX, just of overall premium written our written premium,

buildings We Kinsale of million. announced existing adjacent just to acres two for land This office in December headquarters $XX XX building. over property had and acquired that is late our

One of the subject a to office buildings lease. long-term is

to investment The as other interesting property. The to property planning years. estate is that developers we space gives also of real an are to vacant the Kinsale and purchase renovate mostly next our opportunity, existing parts consider we and over next building several expansion that provides selling

couple the Lastly, of we years to to The continue the to Kinsale's across market as outlook casualty generate where and have favorable, at but well. this conditions. market point through is product quarter. in market grow the for the the Regardless company the see for XXXX, of advantages, competitive property given our quite line best-in-class halfway an of continue next we also under goes optimistic any market returns we and opportunities expect balance first

Petrucelli. to the I'll turn Bryan Now, call over

Bryan Petrucelli

Mike. Thanks,

strong growth XX%, and really by and a the with premium, the year in respectively. close end quarter XX% increasing XX% income a just net to Again, income operating and and written of

cat favorable year and ratio X.X last prior quarter negligible period. in combined from development points a X includes points losses compared XX.X% the net from loss for to either year reserve impact

property and expense compared improvement XX.X% last the the in the company's this proportional ceding to quarterly casualty related so commercial to the ratio, agreements. reinsurance commissions from XX.X% of year, Most quarter

during with in the a higher compared the investment the duration new with increased We're years, X% end a in to has X% to money down XXXX. from year to new decreased money years income the averaging interest investment of X.X% continued by quarter of X.X XXX% investing securities, the return as and fourth at and shorter-duration rates, over of gross last result for quarter close Net year. last year X.X portfolio growth yields

just to to was net an I income fair $XX.X overall our the and to better the operating securities rate environment in hold impacted and Notwithstanding in from of fixed environment. a the rate the gives maturity to new November. cash movements, on. generate positive the money during higher fourth that income, the be us value positive portfolio higher these QX the equity at of value combination from resulting increase to interest allows strong yields position, us flows, positively Book quarter, continues our securities The fixed in touched raise which company quarter interest loss continues an million income ability unrealized invest

As it $XX company. in mentioned, the we market our to to expected equity our the million needs raised quarter fourth relates as of I We change. monitor as capital, offering fund approximately continuously conditions growth

possibility the debt-to-capital supporting Given need with our in form market continued additional debt and given the come premium position. can Support bias that growth, of or related equity favorable modest capital. current a there's the debt, we'll always towards conditions

earnings was compared year. share per share lastly, last share per $X.XX per $X.XX diluted to And quarter for the

And pass I'll Haney. to that, it with over Brian

Brian Haney

Thanks, Bryan.

three continues our in quarters. earlier, market E&S and, across The in the capacity growth hard product remains believed the be has strong industry wake fourth contraction it in Hurricane favorable, to of line. the most property as mentioned As would. grew quarter, premium Ian, we largely the Overall, continued consistent with of XX% the with market first

property our across most seeing to addition growth In of strong divisions. we are casualty our divisions,

There growth a more continue which or slower business and that flat under the quarter. Our continues and product to are liability. general at significant divisions management growing, slight of represents liability such previous deceleration as in energy, Submission strong very competitive be casualty and pockets just particular pace. a from are some to entertainment XX%, grow

one sell be number, fourth the X% in in up to property rates average. vary aggregate down we of those indicates The exceeding higher the compared in quarter lockstep, products the average, being than but rate market that the but the would less property rate X% the don't which boosting change combination the it real to loss and certainly is array wide of for trend. but greatly, boil in we would that rates the see be for third quarter. well number. a cost The positive, premium during still is overall divisions casualty We all products if rate and would around move changes our than trend changes the The

to It that rate rate adequacy and concepts. two different change is are important stress

Our rates are than more adequate.

target combined on in our opportunity are reviewing on We adjusting a as ratio, considerations, the of shifts market return competition. equity, and our based rates the such and number our continually target

keep ahead good conservative We continue trend feel an may the been to exposed protects we've further strategy rate years threat We our with increases us we're inflation eye more several for to. our of in that now, because cost combined Mike of loss be from achieving of the as mentioned. peers reserving on increases a inflation. of These position some

are but or do deals. market still another. a do MGAs conditions generally ourselves, We and our in [fronting] We all underwriting the favorable board. authority competitors some (ph) delegate across virtually fashion The see don't of proliferation

rates and this point. and affected new these of aggressive not these terms, fronting not MGAs some. been the new overly But being at deals, has Some despite MGAs on all, but market are too

results. Mike. back a with And Overall, good with happy quarter, to over hand are we clearly, the I'll that, it and

Michael Kehoe

Thanks, Brian. for Operator, questions ready we're now.

Operator

[Operator first Zaremski Mike from question the Instructions] line And comes from your of BMO.

Your open. line is

Michael Kehoe

Mike. morning, Good

Mike Zaremski

about ceding on property Maybe morning, can reinsurers how you're continued good higher should should update touching just bit I us reinsurance reinsurance -- a Maybe the your more growing growth property on changes a any can optimism Hey, the reinsurance you're Friday. and to and sounds throughout to growth think like I'm think everyone, bit assuming costs. whether I math happy we And a about any right and first we you the -- think -- whether too, into works should -- the program believe, that if we more year? the -- it versus see opportunistically we think front.

Michael Kehoe

this is Okay. Mike. Yes,

on casualty our where excess book. lot So, and property we we our book put buy our on larger up a of limits reinsurance

And growth time. shift, that of going to premium ceding so, property, basis. going higher is the growth mix to result. an is ceded yes, the a The and business is property over ratio casualty in property in the both earned in result I mean, on

bit in in near ratio a But here little reasonable expect and business when the So, a general, it lag it. ceding of incremental we an the for there's be increase write the we term. earn between to would when

Mike Zaremski

-- this or should And be how of ratios IR into as kind thinking year I'm costs kind the of impacting that thinking we at think be -- of all the kind 'XX any as of about TBD reinsurance will of about we kind progresses? just time should

Michael Kehoe

XX/XX. (ph) And we Our commentary loss it's buy say, for certainly rising. We on -- our to million hard million, our case about of treaty. cat of don't There's lot company. $XX been enormous right? I in renews not would are reinsurance That's a that excess cost costs program an be that, the expect would today. $XX [extra]

the side, the have favorable. I there quota on results So, is the quite proportional been there think largest commercial property our share, contract

on we So, on change kind treaty, of any the and don't of renewal in economics side. the expect dramatic casualty that likewise

long away term. over attractive ceded very the returns to reinsurers we've think our I in general

a But a And speculative bit little XX/XX at point. the so, again, so pricing. I think in that'll treaty, be it's reflected renewal it's this

Mike Zaremski

know Okay. for obviously, the profitable so is [conducting] more maybe industry, bit you're pricing you We, guys Understood. that better. (ph) than a

at growth new that growth is about be term, rate for thinking kind premiums your into about Just of line thinking enough commentary foreseeable levels the mean, near the property I future? in sight continuing in of written recent kind growth near of we about should the the gross there least side

Michael Kehoe

we last below extraordinary It's just we've would just above some driven look either I part at, driven say, say an in would pretty XX% that's increases pricing. or at it's exposure. rate look in things in industry. I been our the And if four in by growth by dramatic rate. growth you growing been that in part The strong years,

our I think Brian around always growth little flow that a submissions a business leading we've XX% new as continues at of bit Haney level. commented And looked indicator. that that of

adverse the development distress in the reinsurers' a concern on years reinsurance And commentary the across side. accident whatnot for the the about in about 'XX the and lately with commentary casualty There's again market. 'XX then, of bit industry little to just press some been of

omen prospects be for the I growth in think forecasting terms that industry. of decent would a good

receipt continues E&S dramatic indicate to rate. states at Texas, seemed grow, tax York the quarter E&S that, information some to big New of E&S XXXX, the of this Florida pretty The market a first and the from like in had point California,

those XXXX, things certainly. a all think us I So, for give optimism of sense good

Beyond more that, little gets it a bit speculative.

Mike Zaremski

-- some estimated appreciate a bit lines? But loss on lastly between notable pickup loss you trend. spread just cost narrowing industry participants pricing trend any any Okay, of and seeing just on now. commentary have gave And us great. trends in in you're loss in seen terms of I anything incremental pricing -- the

Bryan Petrucelli

noted I the and slight rate, a real effect real a there's in mentioned we trend No, is deceleration think in the there. because the we of the rate premium reason

the the things seeing, the convey sense movement generally, sort a ties to book. trying more we're makes So, across and more that adequacy competitors it towards just of our way We're same in are in doing.

Michael Kehoe

estimate third from of steady the our trends loss think I pretty cost And quarter.

Bryan Petrucelli

Yes.

you very we slight -- have the A margin, competitors what reduction the in dissimilar what our to underlying in gap... deceleration to reduction data say, a the way] whatever what So is not it's and in call, is [this said? or you (ph) a yes, like want see

Mike Zaremski

got Spread. Yes, it.

Bryan Petrucelli

sorry. word, Spread. I'm That's the

Mike Zaremski

you very much color. the for Okay. Thank

Michael Kehoe

Mike. Thanks,

Operator

Mark from Your next question comes of line Hughes Truist. from the

is Your open. line

Michael Kehoe

Mark. morning, Good

Mark Hughes

that Good defining judgment Difficulty] thank real trends. Yes, X%, talking you. inflation that morning. right? as pricing you're up on less Is when you're about nominal So, [Technical rates your

Brian Haney

effective for premium on Remember, our of lot Plus, also are trend. basis. policies an the sold inflation-sensitive exposure a adjusted

So, goes the go the as even without premium up, rate. up prices underlying irrespective of

more us resulting they the of manufacturers. product are that's goes with So, to in inflation, for cover products If of up the price example, because premium, going selling necessarily. overall more exposure that give we

rate loss and trend. the nominal for it's adjusted trend change, for the So, adjusted premium cost

Mark Hughes

Okay.

right essentially way your the inflation about that would think still So, spread be it? X versus considered to points. Is

Brian Haney

rate zero, is, Right? of If be saying Another should theory, adequacy is were the rate stronger. -- should our rate way positive, steady. be rate real it if getting in real our adequacy, that

Michael Kehoe

real And our rate X%. is

Brian Haney

X%. is real Our rate

Mark Hughes

you. Got

Okay.

assumption nominal rate. the that, higher so, than top inflation And be rate, something your on is of Is your right? presumably that would that nominal add

Brian Haney

in Loss then the new And rate higher we trends. the also going the this be cost trends digits to to point. at something well be and nominal single going premium have in as high-single digits

Mark Hughes

XX% better XX% of your previously? a just Bryan, about comment bit compared to growth submission little -- under XX% what precise was than

Brian Haney

this think, I think yes, I quarter. just right. exactly said XX% it's under I

of said I last I quarter, think just XX%. slightly north

So be -- but There saw number in the the very really in the the quarter to very fourth been similar the quarter first of hasn't Actually, it's a modest. lot XXXX. of we number change. would

Mark Hughes

And that was dollar much of don't Yes, What amount cat the buy okay. Mike, then, year mentioned XOL. cat last your you you XOL coverage? payment for the XOL,

Michael Kehoe

We'll have get back that. to don't that, on to I you have

it that get a that. back is on think million We'll I was to like guess. something $X or you

Mark Hughes

question, the maybe I much you the don't reinsurance question did reinsurer? you you answering but... not that my for My was, coverage, how maybe pay cede much -- how to did were

Michael Kehoe

our treaty current digits the in for deposit cat somewhere as was year is premium. a XoL paid what the we for It mid-single

Mark Hughes

Yes, all right.

you big point? deal So, not your it's to if that, a on get inflation

Michael Kehoe

Correct.

Mark Hughes

much bound and are then, of you within to you term the you and is near much taking excess how think property How getting do kind have, when casualty? comfortable you're medium And appetite a mix? your more there this on about growth more in where upper

Michael Kehoe

relative the think at capital your you you're and relative profitability. to I looking risk the take always expected base Well, to

got now. business, in get able rates were mind, of our in years raising Keep strong we've trend especially been rates we four a to we've a row ahead when to like grow get the probably environment. we pricing for current in So, appetite

create stockholders. our to wealth an for this So, extraordinary opportunity is

yes, so, very it. hard working to advantage take of we're And

kind is, very yes, The side one come the depending sorts belabor that growing point can that's on I property, added of amount you're we're selling an extraordinary all of is geographic sure on property rapid things the growing. at the not us volatility. a of property spread. complication that's but is We to for broad coverage about, with And make doing a volatility rate, maintain why

you business So, fire as a you property if hurricanes our to coastal in by business United write and lot like. that apparel really driven is of Southeast States get opposed the the would

managing see to also as it, opportunity. but we advantage we're working it the tremendous of take carefully. a We're hard volatility So,

Mark Hughes

property a we shifts And then, when to more premium commissions growth Bryan or XX% think gauge and earnings little bit But excess in favor consistent you XX%, contribution comparable, Petrucelli, when and growth reduces think premium mix so you puts and take P&L? your bit from thinking what more, less, versus Is about look of that the but earlier your from with it that the the ceding there's the profitability casualty, periods. trying mix written written impacts the little just earn, maybe it around up I'm the little how that expense a -- of mix get to with retained takes about this ratio. different earlier or you periods. you quality to the

Michael Kehoe

of one way. first I it the this that. at take I'll Mark, would look

volatility lot a investors our company, our are a in results. public in of interested not As

we reinsurance, volatility the And natural is larger manage margin buying especially that that casualty, we're the property. a where business. in of way especially catastrophe got so, exposure limits. lot We've up by excess putting is on on There and one

of Effectively years. on volatility we're have return commission. decent book ceding well made compensated reinsurers offloading that of those commission. investment some reinsuring reserves business the with the our replacing a also and we're with over But income ceding we're Our our the

less at It's, just think our primary just don't it's considerations positive business that volatility. again, look a other And there's than I So, very that trade. as managing profitability. general, beyond profitable -- in I

Mark Hughes

you. Perfect. Thank

Operator

from of Casey Alexander Your Compass Point. comes question from line next the

is line open. Your

Casey Alexander

thank morning. you. Good Yes,

Michael Kehoe

morning. Good

Casey Alexander

first commissions the really one-time to to First in that question is -- that, my quarter? persistency the and any ratio. the ceding impact on there relation just expense on the impact Is is a or

Bryan Petrucelli

in have you'd the then think bit reinsurance in on depend movement for the and at lot a it's sort expense for have I look is ceding continued that I buy -- quarter-to-quarter Well, business of the volatility we have growth good related there. have mix if to you So, little right? you you theoretically, going could I think over business, look But lines our which commissions, of -- XX-month you of way it. a of the probably think I a ratio period at think less general on if to focusing

Casey Alexander

Okay. Thank you.

expand down of rolling Secondly, term? your rapidly, and yield that while longer last duration the securities a you couple gone been for portfolio, has you're of some quarters, the over on capture strategy really been just earning have still from that. eventually to more tells yield which me short-term that Is that investment there pretty duration the

Michael Kehoe

yield Casey, this Yes, curves are is Mike. The inverted.

paid on five. lot getting more the we're than a you you are on two-year will the duration, four, if the So,

at we willing to I we're accept, will, money. so, that on we're Brian And rollover X% in that. had yield. And the And remarks, shorter capturing some we're shift a think if higher portfolio will around the probably for of new indicated risk you point, getting his but

probably -- I year over where were that's that's double So, ago. we a think little a

Casey Alexander

Yes.

you Lastly, the the of do you the what's -- what is buildings -- that bought? age

Michael Kehoe

in there's issue don't two built The lease. and been basis I XXXX. that I to exactly, but the is modest. one purchase in renovated, one kind 'XXs, of 'XXs well-maintained, may any be of the real the that's with the forget, think older need be to think one does pretty long-term subject very the our they're around in and have I may and

the pretty prospects that So, feel about positive on deal. we return

Casey Alexander

right. questions. my you taking for Thank All

Operator

Jefferies. Instructions] Andrew question line the next Your from [Operator comes of Anderson from

open. is line Your

Andrew Anderson

it to in ask It's results, I'll anyways. quarter, strong morning. appear doesn't be so coming growth but really good Hey, this

Has any quarter, to of expanded just here? more construction-related mentioned degree that last economic some just changed slowdown business. broadly other you had think or lines? in thoughts Maybe the I

Brian Haney

would Yes. We that relative out and renovations, we commercial, see our construction the from spectrum. little across all like of to a -- slowdown and years. I new and point still construction bit and residential both previous covers unit

it's you the U.S., If the has not spending actually total it rate look not previous been growing the it's at in year. construction down, at just growing

see with construction Federal or on we're growing Reserve It's saying probably X% around spending. consistent in X% nominally. you'd what what total data is So, the

Andrew Anderson

casualty to bit. Thanks. rates brokers, it. create is strong it's here, Got difficult just you're on that below then, business, could think place marketplace a average down brokers a some with And pressure to for a growth very submission less still perhaps of But ticked paying right now? that becoming bit since commission I

Michael Kehoe

This there is say is commission. Mike. I pressure always would on

to placements. delegating competitors a to Where migrate more our are for some worked we and not able that appetite. authority, our risk. competitors, type brokers marketplace slightly tend offer of them. tougher broader commissions of our also we're critical underwriting authority, hard preferred delegated E&S success. especially a much than on small to brokers Our very a the some lot traditionally underwriting consider do accounts, pay almost our We We lower of By but risk to

also new we a service quote very-high percentage and quickly. very have the We an we model. of receive, We quota submissions business them extraordinary

helps I commission offset some the of issues. think So, that

a low-cost provider. And finally, we're

business a more of model to lot to an but time, gives in us returns operate able One about best-in-class expense the at to insurance, of the the extraordinary the than Kinsale's competitively offer priced that's of business stockholders. the more our dramatically value flexibility is, marketplace, form deliver lower to which general with really same ratio things we're owner

pressure commission, changes yes, anticipate and of So, a don't on those reasons we any others, but there. for always there's variety

Andrew Anderson

Thanks.

maybe market-related So, like a just question.

Is for around larger small peer bit view how I a a billion. target? a you E&S think more a it, it roughly that heard of that think from moving $X they is commercial or of of sandbox we

Michael Kehoe

market. No, not seen is it's were the but we the rider in they a market obviously would I single XXXX say close the that States is a Lloyd's, share E&S would I United XX% biggest statistics, to entity, XXXX. the think wildly understate marketplace. And haven't which but in

write $X billion. small in some underwriting I brokers of commercial. I the authority States of with. the of puts to wholesale They And think what number United over most think that we is all they work delegated

their or those of Lloyd's is one-off most market. For is maybe largest brokers,

three-quarters. E&S billion. look market addressable would XXXX at we and So, the for would the market between somewhere total estimate And $XXX is for was we two-thirds about

Andrew Anderson

Thank Great. you.

Operator

J.P. comes from line question from Singzon next the Pablo of Your Morgan.

is Your open. line

Pablo Singzon

competitive fast Mike, good point, can E&S. comment the of think industry has Hi, you some companies So, attractive you're the largest, as environment the market? on in broader seeing the well, E&S them E&S I this opportunities recognized the other right? growing morning. And in been at have

the just see of So, days. latest on these you on sort your competition the thoughts where

Michael Kehoe

about the general, book being our a as think competitive we the with very consistent product four than That period Brian it's new of a It business XX% I about the in said, market, way more has we performed years. a of Haney feel positive so But only intensely insurance varies Yes, the environment. seller's cycle. over indicated, (ph) normal bit by that's and [bind] our market quotes, line. last in

that So, last of a in connect even more They XX, plenty reinsurance there's of of lot entrants, it There's to I just of to companies, capacity. XX exist lots couple new up of maybe have competition. years. the or MGAs opened fronting think or reiterates,

lots there's there. of delegated So, underwriting authorities out

a But to know many with is the and there -- even how pushed probably non-standard and the tons. we're that entities of competing XX from being I lot don't said, standard MGAs, market. And it's battling being business risk-bearing other

balanced kind as I a see bit of it's a market. So, a -- it of

But Property profitability, of the very levels in rate inflationary good in feel phenomenal the we general, That's casualty top-line of about; good little all losses reinsurance lines, some this cat bit is just our an positive hard of environment. market. last reduction exception even definitely growth, in the capacity. of of a a several in years, changes, because

that kind think I So, sums up of our view.

Pablo Singzon

questions more Got on a then, here. it. just underwriting couple And

you loss spread reasonable between of it previous [AUI] in your trends, be level The improvement first to -- year, that do your assume one the fair (ph) on as loss see given think in pricing ratio a way over maybe to as continuous Is is, it? not about but next some would much comment just years.

Michael Kehoe

I uncertainty just still COVID. out from There's lot level court there. the given of the systems a are would say, inflation, reopening of

cautious I reserves future terms and that so, be conservative always establishing that of to for in being claims regard. And think just causes us very in

You you're saw our favorable point of balance conservative so. some development approach or Again, a building dropped just sheet. seeing by to the the

forecasting to So, where I we're don't think go. that loss really ratio

have with You to balance, expectations inflation I and think, the for charge prices we development. loss

Pablo Singzon

Or of like because are about -- it release. you I you in that thinking of asked press Okay. outstrips made way, in mention to the that the you cost did this press control mention And aspect don't did of -- guess run growth growth? release, business some that is run business? make I you commentary revenue the And on it one comments always the probably in sure was expense sort there how the but effort the

Bryan Petrucelli

cost operating Well, Pablo, expense capital and say, the breakdown, the that and ratio our other commissions you I the of operating average, or -- relates expenses. so other on costs. of XX% X% look so And if on expense that human X% bucket, other to think majority way vast to the at relates that XX% to relates a average,

to the shifts we're market of movement along in think the growth monitoring growth. sort as of and other that -- we're if well-positioned direction, hiring I And react business, to pretty the manage sort way the of as we the So, that. quickly on goes see we're

Michael Kehoe

just that strategy. advantage would add think of is part a I expense Yes. I business our that, fundamental

for driving automation That's slow, process so, something but always And that that's process. technology, ongoing improve rolling just steady new involves to but on our not we're an by into business principally on it's working more ways out a looking it, maintaining, goal. definitely

Pablo Singzon

then one the And for me. last Okay.

Recognizing of decent did this level mention like my vis-a-vis might capital. growth, when post percentage any against needs (ph). thinking to your it growth, tap earning sense of capital high-level some and have your follow-up expectations be, securing if capital you terms sort about you there is would guide right? the in -- needs guide can could XX% on like I you sustain outside support think resource, right, all about post [capital] or But that ROEs. actually you're these there you provide But growth a some absolute and when dollars that You capital where suppose have about amount considering maybe But of Thank think premium from you. I growth? one of more and your whether very you the broad growth guess

Michael Kehoe

Yes.

So, our are retained a earnings phenomenon.

at look growth. finances generating, our lot you a that of the returns If we're

at all. really we've very capital, the shareholders look we done additional don't something existing Bryan indicated should like And so think I the several that growth then, the you're some hey, liable capital last much borrow would to in that see is money, equity we prices need to years, additional small we external equity that raises if capital. extraordinary impact attractive need at

Pablo Singzon

answers. for Thank Got it. you your

Michael Kehoe

Okay.

Operator

Your RBC comes next Rowland question from of from Capital Mayor line Markets. the

Your line is open.

Rowland Mayor

to discussion, time, the but quarter. problem morning. I more above think a debt-to-cap -- debt-to-cap the good thinking that there offering, up on not the doing high in solves be over Sticking where to where level about debt and would take ratio stabilize? do get the you I in XX% the debt Hi, near-term? that would in you is that the if ROE debt-to-cap the expect And long-term ratio

Michael Kehoe

boosted equity of business balance of in with The maintain sales that some idea the and particular, insurance sheet. we Mike. or been But over in real level ratio debt This using purchase. on there's conservative XX% real But like our we conservative we going time, and the the has a to long-term like will backdown. good sheet. lately be I like range so can the estate we that if and is that terms balance a as mean, bring debt XX%, estate versus

Rowland Mayor

I the enough hire And And a becomes How Or of on it is just premium of to where guess, XX% talent? is this come on relative management growth growth? organizational you becomes there does growth? at then, point Okay. XX% scale another of growing your Thank that walk headcount way to not an you. sort through to question. issue able XX% being the can your

Michael Kehoe

growing Yes. you we the automation in we're significant there claims investments as our dramatically also department. definitely as further I our investment to expanded drive -- the years IT mean, business when last our quickly business of professionals. in couple making process. We're you're very are, in underwriting We've adding and

in growth I achieved the couple pretty extraordinary years productivity. think some we've last of in

think our it look year-end I was employees. in XXXX, headcount at If you XXX

I think year-end XXXX is XXX.

lot of obviously people. So, a we hired

-- a by to and in between and train mix In department. industry lot people new professionals. this more we're claims of bringing is more them. IT, it's varies model new the a But and underwriting, of Our to in experienced

But think not us in years of to grow personnel the just on developing back allowing human be in developing of business an put a it's I last but and people going and the have enormous not paying-off I amount capital, year, lack and constraint think effort growth. and Kinsale's

Rowland Mayor

Very much. helpful. Thank you so

Operator

over no this turn And back at there you Mike remarks. Mr. the for some call further final time. to Kehoe, I are questions closing

Michael Kehoe

by of professionals come the operator. who every you, for everybody results the you we for day. to are that result extraordinary posted work thank And for lot of here Thank Okay. hard work a participating. XXXX Obviously, Kinsale

on the them build we to to to them talking So, Kinsale we of very all to critical our few success, we forward the work want again that a recognize everybody hard everybody around businesses. part to their continue brokers and help And in and obviously, definitely team for look months. are Kinsale country

Operator

call. for conference Thank participation. This concludes you your today's

You now disconnect. may

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