BUR.L - Earnings call 2 2023 | Burford Capital Limited

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Operator

Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's conference call titled Burford Capital Second Quarter 2023 Results. My name is Ellen, and I will be the call operator for today. [Operator Instructions]I would now like to turn the call over to Chris Bogart, CEO, to begin. Chris, please go ahead, whenever you are ready.

Christopher Bogart

Thanks very much, and hello, everybody. a of taking us to for today. you little time bit join Thank

on more joined by about Financial the Chief usual, we've able far, of on As that I'm one to put YPF they YPF And likely excited out much any value. And call And the decision a Slide side, YPF what But half a the year impact and first that be components some not Licht, that strong. and we're we couple the had Jefferies, the the tell to pillars the you that. takes And before had Investment significant our recent has Jordan said Jon highlights very a Jordan few right-hand half strongest Jon history.Turning of he into take at days of Burford's X is having analysts We've Chief of you talk revenue and Officer. in the of to those being the some and where terrific so all case it.Julian the Officer; Burford's Molot, to Roberts, X. our second ago in overshadow of earnings. more And been success quarter you obviously note collectively than was successful our of Jordan and have terms overall which our prove our as a here I We've just although into look March, are determined numbers -- are have all of numbers effectively with the I I portfolio decision. you -- to call growth We right business am -- before the matter, Slide life to if is X details. back those come that in very points determined in X, core now, gains the numbers is on are YPF do him had successful the side of part reason sub-bullet, about again, what business coming quarter first left-hand our on significant I'd and non-YPF all are to first some that. on pillars where Burford's of say to they And of that the from data from which income started addition the X have in what the you the core the metrics, the from cash second because financial then, of do I'm we've the am about showing to see at are of this the which metrics, nothing case. wrong has all very and that show numbers doing perform. business. Slide, These and highlight out are those YPF we slide, second business

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Jordan Licht

total Thank each we the you, deeper turning to of different Chris. into of Slide components. I'm numbers X. before snapshot quick dive the A

a book now increase Chris at the quarters and provision here.So, to capital of the versus of when mentioned, This see continue discount first $X.XX. hit impacted half momentum up earnings the on per year share $X.XX points and we a change half we year XXXX significant by Both As see underlying of by considerably half XXXX couple in also period-over-period. is rates. a XXXX. value first of in income the in quarter, first the XXXX in the portfolio. is second looking our were of And highlighted I'll in key of the

aren't $X support capital bottom using or Burford-only and position in significant billion, value the sheet the sheet happy As absent quarter, a our our finance, of we asset equity points, of the our time the new ability like billion.I'm And second And a market $XXX highest exit XX commitments I in time value had impact demonstrated year you'll recall, interest just our rates to as with in investments. where is based a going revised interest million of to in had leader portfolio the to deal, of consolidated Page exit.Turning in even the to to of forces and ultimate money. that support offset balance policy history level $XX one whether capital our with litigation similar the in the quickly XX productive increase delivered of that our going that into million not the global are work and or our assets activity. elements a shy investments move takes of valuation impact and our firms we To clients you portfolio have are in to our significant give equity, passage provision our for or and time rise large the over GAAP volatility X to of on reporting of rates other of discount approach our caused And QX. close negative in $X investments Fortune at factors account private and to valuation completed million metrics funds. discuss our it This quarter. been capacity duration of to that's Blackstone third-party Again, capital, to has is incorporate. on headwind.However, provision second real jump direct the want sense magnitude, deployments purely the overall commitment the isolating value commitments have of incorporate is cash half of and create of the SEC time, page. XXXX first KKR This a in the we anything change with a when basis the values. the market $XXX a flows going duration, by basis. other which highlight transaction to of dependent we some a Even around unlike ultimate remained market significant balance on rate depressed business on is progressing assets to alone company. this

we $XXX to corporates then provide now, appetite outline Page, let deployments.And show portfolio. our kind with million the balance our Importantly in of their for of of realizations like litigation highlights turn bottom continued we though, of which the deals discuss sheet, for financial the build-out Jon what portfolios.Moving the this by the the can is that to to solutions continued large me deployments, it

Jonathan Molot

much, Thanks here very to moment great joining. such for very all It's Burford. with a for to you. Jordan. I'm excited be Thanks you

we is bottom performance we with level is this information vintage which year you historically. taken shows that's of of it kept Burford.And through slide see time months And with information. bars you the by if The it keeping I the in look is the you of shows are, packs If before, return year. by and like And seen pool a that's -- concluded deployments up turn at it that to shareholders out whether a got commitments to love business IRRs X. the because we've with COVID and you great have generate the million. things what's of of our that but cases, we've some have how once very that larger is updated and look current the these about the numbers, for got lines in what record bars. the $XXX whether talking campaign show will in resolved. a ago, undertook still can in, a have you of couple positive in really, realizations and gray lot But it's in that this it business confidence Jordan the has of way, now, sacrifice things revenues of at period-to-period, on first about or I cash the of Slide in course, we've what by see additional portfolio you in very -- you That X, the you portfolio, we've while up. slide just It And the built to out The there. we talked capital, levels. return And large numbers have from measure X, those what and of upper about course, though at are. all shaded how -- way we cash first And shaded any so is vintages are this produced that have what's that red that We've half growth the much the this as in IRR as XX-month a the We're the produce trailing at Slide that over care plan.If saw hope from what future?And level the that's see producing results numbers. time have you great XX look does the versus look you invested its been has larger without portfolio that see a really you at is things. red The Slide quality those ability you those going very now gray that kind the the revenues we've bars have of work trailing our I assets side just even what for vintage same have a are of a versus bars already what's Burford-only larger show a realizations, resolved. we looking and the assets opportunities? on 'XX, half just the you real more reflect same right more slide, either see matters and reflects you done harvested, -- realizations on 'XX generating our

rate, rapid really their revenue -- had we gray for generate do place COVID a not more bars future.Okay. processing I got revenues are red But it's courts and through steady and doing that earlier clip. have it stand slowdowns great portfolio generate now I the would at COVID So, those on working are to continues or think us turned of it slowdowns. just shaded that Probably we've been some think and poised more steady worked the have the -- cases to behind behind in through backlogs a

tender was and how shareholders, YPF. so just it much Spain model back these the real price in had faced value when trading entitlement for is I insolvency or was an XXXX. XXXX see and clearly say of who tap that of litigation. with to offer of Slide a speaking dilemma to actually that he going result it contractual how to fight. to receiver to depressed to a He think a than didn't involve a who the for value. in And XXXX work YPF much, large and price that rights charged of vindicate going to formulaic in effectively had from in he that financial do action. price that holder company gratifying would offer XX% the was a first to managing going time knew to to entitlement part higher he was expertise a Argentina's the as it that there and the tender the he real X, pause Turning a was I and And How is to resources to years shareholders years fight the complex very was have business expensive

and and put in hiring auction his this top-notch finance to the plan the that expertise the for has piece using delay just of judicial outside penalized that the the that year-in against lawyers go litigation that, entity and Petersen down also trenches had year-out work in did this on Park business he experience us conduct shareholders, gratified risk. and case, just the they rights. with trial are was with litigation top-notch the to of I foresight those to I an to the in particularly ahead and with final which be validates So, and out vindicate finance kind model. -- manage this to shareholder's this for course, Burford, sovereign who partner to looked best process only deliver best for in faced expertise he and adversary look fact, of so -- the the there together expensive to law nation a And judge manage sources to how They result. was issue payment.And team legal in litigation. litigation bring for the kind lawyers litigation opinion having world I'm the case every great finance X chose the large was team, to and the combined think and going gratified to to shouldn't legal he note much the manage really Eton of result And really that And a approved to this when assemble

United as and know a that judgment are Circuit. of a so, Court they do right. they to already recall opinion States. appeal fraction you'll of to there stay. appeal for There Court on are just the their is Supreme and the Second has outcome after seek contractual some an obtaining in in But the United wants the the sovereign to what Federal going everybody the the Appeals immunity, Circuit is discretionary, the comes in stand to did next. Court Supreme of will And saying it I'm in review and U.S. course, Circuit, Argentina that are short that something said forward potential a There'll Judge Solicitor And Stock -- that an this from of be ago, enforceable this could an a bond go And it New issue rights company has very SEC-registered a States.So, final, an things That's decision order. Second in appeal reviews the cases and issued for Court pleased IPO in let there review. declined Court do small petition of we know interest know what General absent And the entered of involved Preska's once States, Argentina entity the There comes to in review because if we an next. is Supreme States against with and the the judgments, United Exchange years the indicating United States decided United appeal States case Second for United has the where a the was posting did is that or defendant being case, of the is resolved the the York happen. shareholders this here.Now,

it expect strategy, we said, our our what really over what we detail you investors years, just talk know take, translating behind of what Eton more and long litigation us of that, think our As just did what toward terms how didn't to Thanks the we true into cash we into it would for go in we as the as damages, in lot scenes, on how litigation did this with think and much. anyone's is Chris it and Petersen much well wanted will as Park -- to can't to the a more the turn was -- about in for the was going next was same very back judgment kind that over. steps interest I shareholders.So, about take for

Jordan Licht

XX. Jon, and Slide Thanks, on I'm

On double the gains efforts rewards the reap year, the and total page, management mentioned in of And from a capital the the $XX of half both of true which gains Dissecting our approaching sheet quarter I clients. of our that million a continues of of the to income, provision in first support the number continue versus first asset realized of funds half half. the million XXXX.On our and last outline and that's first first represented second to excluding half business, the perform the of a our realized using bottom $XX see we half includes we're is the to bit, significantly XXXX. compares top to the which this balance year's even $XX YPF, which of is you'll million, impact first higher in

last and the $XX to recognized, this While to first will structures receipts but Page doubled there XX, impact they from previous million.Moving glance, of non-cash quarter. year-to-date value and it's some separate important fair of is the waterfall compared cash out movement At QX cash the than expenses expenses. the seem year period-to-period at year, bit income year-to-date higher that's the to outline given have on for second the the the a

For receipts further are the lot isn't I million and the to on for that's and And money there's but looks gone it's cash second of first example, incentive which million in the same is Starting to the $X.X annual try of in $XXX expense is top valuation at $XXX $XX the values need true terms, to one the of metric up some left, on.I'm that of highlights. information -- spend expect million. we The period cash which significantly accrual expense implementation our now. million, And That's line will asset expense Page is capture and of the went here that end off in the share the to total in also like driven it rest I'll year.Looking new work by the associated looking methodology, there by moving increases price million. first the up and this $X the in quarter, million at portfolio. this XXXX. comp it's restatement up $XX expense, movement at than a in our of with page G&A XX and just of the compensation higher of the important note last a line half year. know

putting tied of some occurred Our our can but and to receivable, redeem of that as date. to converted including We've period-end, to page we And those the bottom before did was had these million which It million intend was unusual still or work have hold near We are paid covenant well below collateral -- that's by cash we're receivables levels. realizations in which was as longer-dated don't forward the unrelated this have to been as much full. call, the We that almost in XX% levels. to right receivables talked one mention a and of position the all remain receivables this litigation our issuance was cash leverage about and case, as to receivables. resolved.Obviously, issuance the digesting $XXX well the to that of and which shows cash, we our look that levels, securities, the $XX and after highlighted XXXX bond and these strong quarter-end. liquidity of cash cash the and we of

Just for context, that, be if billion leverage levels.With issue we looked turn the it I you levels, Chris. these $X.X more to or today still at will back close to probably within debt and covenant could

Christopher Bogart

Thanks very much, and I am turning to Slide XX.

investments. at You've pillars seen that of billion, get call of -- the runway at the slide billion we're this those so portfolio, of now.The over And $X.X value successfully we said seen as a earlier, now pleased very standing and right strong returned long potential as across proposition. the be growing slide we've core before, our I of these time. portends here that notably, equity that pillars mark at And is now X to now is from sizable Burford realizations continue a how The stable of $X with future stands from you all a Burford's billion. having future and X very $X.X And and are reminder holder. components a we're returns runway being cash

business the desirable well. the first the saying a need good on is half. a management quarter. look be half, again. will instead And seasonally new I always don't on but just producing helpful I terms said to fundamentally I've the year the And And as quarterly feel discussion.I $X of the amount run than our and reporting. don't is an So, before, say basis. back something can't business accounting historically nice about said real we've which business. second quarter We billion will to also before, and more one basis. through I cash a about from I that's We billion than many how I produce YPF accounting cash note done quality make year more when cash monthly that That's of accounting and receipts me do not business. we this look numbers on evaluate weekly are how find think in on -- on shows returns doing. numbers the the how of us asset quarterly run looking. by an I've basis. the that are Those last for company a the further don't of it the half, of over it than track a reporting Half at the for as assets at of We further good doubled with is to. that Jon the business both we more than regular is any We run a the we in ability it business management this try the And don't long-term our platform.Asset bad origination basis record.In years, lower origination, we or $X.X we way, get

can't managed very an involved than where So, we that it's We been accounting different businesses the in to the do I've here. past really that some of number.

text to just quarterly going this to a way I in terms and headed.Now, at your doing up about and that after we of respected using and our will good cash ongoing legal So frankly, finally, enterprise. we number, doesn't of being that is capital, means of is manage we business and some dollars who we're And what for business about and some a And complex reporting be now YPF, clients, will the satisfactory think pure industry very some questions, the YPF perceptive the trouble this a about corporate really take into bright of be that's enormous. rather of legal more that We say opportunity here are courts, of by down, close itself quotation and Preska's before put terms a Burford.And that case. week evolution comment to by XX. it. where the in scale, from last us the from portends Judge our absolutely for do to years, what a in to industry larger business valued particularly.And of point billions cash very broader the the it a turning Slide critical in I'm more the reflection Judge obviously, I'm Preska but citing as is of not we're by by talk XX And law going transforms to ruling future that

Just measuring about we're pharmaceutical. global lawyer global size same pharma, the as costs,

If you beyond that takes judgments add settlements, level. in us far and that

planet. teenager. is of today that a And is the the Burford barely its in industries on largest industry one So this in operation

are changing the financially this judges. to and history brings. And like your grateful do senior the without support. period see, this see so. excited you that, very with of We what reaping with next questions. comments both of in in it, federal as we existentially We in vanguard from for doing industry. to can We're We're it.And it take couldn't We're happy the we're are very our your benefits

Operator

I'll [Operator now hand back for any Instructions] to Chris webcast questions.

Christopher Bogart

Thanks.

background so the the We filer, percentage called close shareholders, tip in while And we with it and the that's What And the checking that measurement. whether XX%. is did shares was quarterly reporting of of a to the shares trigger foreign current example, start would some come we the shareholders?So, U.S. out held XX%, U.S. be see you the now to just by whisker we'll a being conduct excellent so asks, is were for than of the affirmatively. Graham with webcast as a of from last would outcome XX% held so which greater into a what's and on should exercise of it did June which U.S. private mandatory of that to I -- XXXX said shareholders is, category were high number question. that percentage us the this very Graham regular not level to and view and issuer very So, what of what in We undertaken the XX%, an number with year. in on. Birch, addressed are have call this candidly, by what fact question percentage shareholders XXs. exercise U.S. U.S. incremental, under were was a XX, U.S. an would of

be XXXX, we calendar And -- regular of shares are next So the we we means in year. June. end relevant This because, today, no pass XXXX. frankly, would as for reporting. less think the is ongoing looking you be test foreign formal and in gone to foreign passes, disclosure we expansions the would is will because time continue issuer to through especially increasingly fiscal a that what reporting which our given continue longer that would as then private have start time we private question, And will June, that passes.But the issuer for that fiscal quarterly the year-end of just voluntarily year, we've see this volume to would of I we anticipate status XX% next trading again do company U.S. where at will of level I as assuming a terms

on the think have for we So, a thank question.And you question that -- phones. thank now I for you

Operator

Yes.

from We Julian Roberts have audio Jefferies. an question from

Julian Roberts

Can you hear me?

Christopher Bogart

can. We

Julian Roberts

already from Burford-only results? on One, And Great. any if changes your and whether ask the impact of rate to one. other significant seeing you're you've couple to on isolate this, the Apologies questions. are competition, the then among generally changes I you first fair going was competitors. But able value answered a

of there passing think name? XX% actually case XM the disclosed would Another, that in any you a whether impact that this affect have broader choice maintaining on Burford's you finally, way? to in your of do be the thinking so, expect if level any the about your -- be technical to business arrangements funding will Judge's that any require her? will And following And

Christopher Bogart

So, thanks, Julian.

pass Let a and off. of remainder take the then I'll couple me those,

in any same that let you But order not them. not the asked XM. me with start So -- in

you of when consumer and hundred very members.That connection several case hearing U.S. don't and the recently set then those of just agreement, about are for these a be what motion, defective earplugs the caused of announcement all thousand is in has this to XM So case actions. it settlement with service defect to individual after I'm agreement who settlement know, announced service alleged consumer allegedly litigation and given loss in to against talking that people manufacturer military a were of them is among the in there of the piece large

a and people large suing together simply managed have So coming action, these they number consolidated injured isn't it's cases on of XM. literally because basis. a service the class damages, are this that And individual individualized are a

by which in from obviously on slightly the -- cases.What is engage in practices. that protecting we I So consumers don't lending and the small given predatory financing that Judge issued mainstream been think, in you case to media misunderstood the kind has, order focusing an dollar of did, might directly these consumers see

police sort they of worth that a because be which fast. she the might comes So, deal firm want the lender-style offers poor and military world in in guy a payday and take money $XX,XXX $XXX,XXX, wants they claim effectively for some some to rapacious

larger able has on place, regulation remains so. to That protection safeguards we consumer is example, a it's why area.That disclosed question is public, happens appropriate in, call percentage to do made arbitration matters that bankruptcy broader we consumer said, we a nothing -- we're other we procedures, the the and competitive topic I'd firms, This you disclose our a do. divide perfectly required content existence, the And to the what for were doing have AIM, sort in doing at when are the case pure-play same this Petersen with we clear, in of matters. business.Competition, no, cases, what The no, doing and our get pure-play do into to a think moment to I position being our in expect to than doing that And accompanied any environment.As X continue entire and down cases. have today. it we litigation answer. don't non-event is environment, is We for the competition short a described divide finance is the by any really on as deal before. of multi-strat of deals and of basically our variety disclosure robust whenever size, we're all impact So That's fully think deals. anything with I smaller for disclosure And the somewhere disclosure a That compete firms in buckets, think of to the of to or financial really which and different we've which by be dynamic most certainly, contemplation firms. positive multi-strats discussion. with between is the the then tends we've much competitive and

we've all groups to look trading would and sit forward significant shareholders and to long-term in the how evolves. watch relationships those United the of continuing over to you continue of got and we take as loyal But in base like Jordan, time.And We the the... shareholder the and U.K. we in today, East, and Europe, watch the Middle States

Jordan Licht

first The question.

Christopher Bogart

First question.

Jordan Licht

The change based have first to a points, respect asset was was, rate. of in in Burford-only. probably That my on $XX said what million would basis. think impact range the I I of the question, talking value number be off the consolidated million to with mid-$XX

Julian Roberts

you'd would got no, but tell clear. be I'll probably it which I too, answer to rather question I've Extremely another think you, the [indiscernible]

Operator

Bowers next from comes question Berenberg. Alexander Our from

Alexander Bowers

Three questions for me.

I'll been The answered but to already first anyway. ask by a think extent, certain it Julian's question have I one might

are sure competition, offer?The sort be change of any but guess I'll in you're able anyway. whether not of question, competing for? level I of pricing not, for impact of answer And in level I'm claims had you'll terms Just the competition you to second seeing sort on or ask sort of has any it that of you that

XX% visibility Eton to to and sales Any further of fees. whether about lastly Petersen's to I'm of sort funds. great. sort Park, roughly be Just third expect sort fees just it?And the appetite to I parties. on on more on to you I'm wondering provide been from Are performance ask you level not by disclosed not. your to believe it performance or able sell to give whether of you to be be of would was YPF, are that sure down sort more as the it's do view stake sold trying I able able you'll of could

to of of model, given I sort the a think probabilistic that have change, kind you before out used accounting view that. of but

view give us from to could you of the the linked potentially? what that, sort of as YPF a fees to are performance And sort impact outcome

Christopher Bogart

Sure.

So, little why all X I take think those. bit pricing? us -- willing you to about don't and Jon, talk will competition are of more a

Jonathan Molot

Sure.

to feel moment like to, competition. happy happy not I'm in do price actually So, and particularly we to are I'm I report comes a it that difficult when

been just about the us -- a that true I though has we've the I've this of that over awareness business, entry the very think our been leader. even the made remained have have it market good and think I expanded for the competitors this in because that we throughout years over market talked market years,

all somehow track of realize have out fund of well way sort in those this of reach capital structure, headwinds sometimes some particularly our get They moment, fit some and actually how us to up that competitor Twenty a the scale, them.I and been calls new our flurry out that this and us period sudden at Two a And that time as by the the reached permanent to of and anything then our for of and we competitors, a out scope they a we're record, up. our there'll expertise on positioned things had they talked a if better there is competitors a faced sort all a or think new there of keeping have a of that about where I've retrenchment, capital. capital, and ones and month, have of pops and are flavor our relying just harder is entirely be combination

-- the moment. out and or law been cheaper that rather with whoever case and been out parties both our have do actually has make of for there at counterparties saying, unless and to that experience, is cheapest there. we with There business corporates -- we're just competitive us. build sort I'm a never they sense, offering always are I just are to coming somebody us sure quite for landscape that found there. that's business our And feeling You're about companies right? us. something deals value any the our that's going it's But win-win it's the are is make haven't you. But economic good you're going of that would than whether when there So firms to and That's I

Christopher Bogart

On But Great. Thanks, left we've lot. sales, market XX% are opportunities. across that like we a comfortable off time, portfolio Petersen right the you or an in we look prior profit. and Jon. this liquidity We The terms awful YPF, booked and at very about for of we sale further I entitlement got the at when sell down. asset the think us that think I same took always risk think theoretically appetite of XX% could

in spend So, that like even something we've a Xx of in return. the current already locked or case, levels at Xx

about And to general, so, you're I in fees. talk us but does, doing going something never say YPF. see only certainly is that either.And but to before he performance never, going But just you it's tomorrow Jordan asked about not not

a is YPF Just balance sheet asset. as a reminder,

in business. were we So, deal did we YPF the before fund the

our fees. BOF. of more would in majority was of that never But is as by managed of did if made not. media whether the potential have secondary a do reports the lot media it of of the happen there the one speculation We obviously purchase confirmed secondary our that a and couldn't are Twenty far performance media sale, Jordan, happened secondary portion funds, have part And confidentiality a funds ability on XXXX from there fee occur, performance If LPs And a Two by that elected the the question a speculation. the own did from be sale to part the to to LPs based I -- with to sale.And it. the firms confirm decision in we've offering.The of participation even it fund so, the happened only no from BOF-C. BOF, interest possibly correct, some a get then way that one of a investors funds. our sell generally is of secondary do about or that holding could like if the portion is nor we And if

Jordan Licht

fees. to of the of kind overall managing gave think it's of guidance, but entry managing place or I funds ago the Look, the referring have materially you're assets to in continue Yes. when referring we don't to the manner the some we give don't we'll of with I a changing we the view whether that. to that see of points couple same quarters or with and you're various use performance sheet balance been lower-yielding BOF-C that opportunities --

to number I don't but a you. guidance give -- So specific have

Christopher Bogart

what And next, we've litigation Straw And Burford using faced the got a webcast know this. in I years educational was think for started the Burford idea from didn't sense. a question ]. weren't [ capital into to we like is competitive an position all?So ruling People YPF this new accustomed business answer barely the is, that we take really, teenager this finance the Burford's when following it was commitments challenge. -- challenge adulthood? yes, and XX Dennis mentioned meaningfully they industry, Chris ago, improve does The does in at this then

legal anyway, legal the legal more educated the become our with and over of provider first much industry of the the half of to really so, childhood in that could talk finance spent educating having what them, happened they were has capital then being and them.What analogy concept the years, And frankly, about the time has capital course, is the our life, brand ubiquitous industry. of to to do

know me some to So is in-house extraordinarily leaps high, a a our the and not recognition lawyer brand that who anyone historically bounds showing else. both beyond for meet partner finance Burford. we've in of concept at and legal released it's firm research And or law now does the industry an rare

of has every which merely a And either that. affirming, FOMO, $XXX missing because Gee, is million this have disclosed antitrust over was out. a watched that minds as have fear been even also capital or is decisions said, users my Even The taking in I now million our solidifies that $XXX like we last of What aren't further the YPF millions event, we're over people looking General corporate the CFO the am that this think what time there business I doing thing.And now, of got saying, potential did that's has $XXX in at -- thing, XX bit million a a and further in that food on litigation which that so, it interview furor is we things we've the we so, high-profile asked.And competitors media And telephone are little say, caused by doing? from events are basically, I that. there it Minutes that Jordan that is day, real looking what year, does Cisco, a or that the was suspect of well, And done happens, question. and to every of another that whenever real Counsel transaction. C-suite why people kind real are we're -- media successful of I that Burford. think clients what of the like a cases and So, coverage behalf to that? and that did the millions at the

Operator

MDC Our Cohen Research. from audio from comes next Financial question Michael

Michael Cohen

sheet in asset. here YPF the the ruling United YPF to my with the questions States. of on balance Both Congratulations do have valuing

will that collectability. And comments -- from could was you greatest collectability sovereign any leverage wondering you then be the in talk will nation to I One like actually a be, collectability could of any the if to how regard uncertainties realization with taxed? is have second Argentina.

Christopher Bogart

Sure.

accounting enforcement to long for chime what road touch give going you people and can much of discussing -- want sort in what are paying and say to is just there, valuation really risk unfortunately, passed.Jordan, I so we've like be do substance of the side shareholders.So, and litigation in earlier, to, its actual we're is view very Jordan overall the negative you the us then that but net the sort me tax that to the defending This then a doing resolving injuring itself points. strongly were on has let awards of and comments down go against of that collectability. the in know after not We would to made long to things? and saying to a of a So said and acts, that back I aggressively position of couple of has Argentina of history a give our past, Jon that bad time goes but we and position judgments except which accounting can't also and have been history just has of on against of the it runs a

Jordan Licht

Look, question with Yes. a to the tax think rates I asset. for of with specific get rate. like respect into We to discussion was don't tax -- specific your

going I'm unfortunately, one untouched. -- to have So, to to that leave

Christopher Bogart

And of the in terms valuation...

Michael Cohen

comment with any to any tax? there comments there realization legal legal regards make Is -- typically tax could or you receipts is on

Jordan Licht

have think I with Look, is tax the And I that portfolio what a variety we previously think, rate, overall said for we and to we the overall forth. is of tax teens. what use in the say so can respect structures different corporate long-term rate tax low that

been to don't we fall so, now, fairly -- it where cash we And low. has assets. get that's taxes we out. Obviously, where right specific expect But into

Christopher Bogart

Okay. the Thanks for question.

same only?So, due add OpEx, fair is milestones, with going latter value fair accruals how as of reconcile this on. Next, webcast OpEx we accruals due net simply to from impact OpEx the ]. in seen effective is also approach take OpEx Jordan milestones this based component do and value a Rakesh question as a impact have preliminary exceeding is at addition about just a The the rises of to about matter. of follow is accrue quarter. would to We've accruals increasing price go Or value Jordan Capital milestones? I they But here. rate up a the about, and the going so stuff the portion fair assets? share to question the talk [ to the this rate we on Does loss World of there

approach allows we the potential you into net dumb of the it you Burford stock your even the into in from cover plan, accountants owed we don't permit not to let compensation impact frankly, have and stock the increase take As to employees to in past, But compensation and bought a operate plan Burford we be employees if that they charge you the and accounting -- wonderfulness fact, put benefit done cash liability, which cover that treasury accounting it's deferred stock share then to those and X participants. into a we put in stock future stock, it's punitive us you've buy things.In you I going because liability think particularly comp price so to in take price. on when do and the get the plan increase share to the defer the P&L deferred they does income the where for that the the compensation deferred -- a because buy

to value also close, not given So perverse, every will stock which hedged own us market.And to talk we're naked take there negative share the the even risk particularly we're side. and is about we time employees not, price in accounting if we that are fair our rises, if is the encourage want to want we to the an and perfectly Jordan

Jordan Licht

synonym, important the different vintages, different against every with think couple our long-term the a of a generally note incentive once we to speaking, perfect compensation, of percentages carry think carry fair a answer but did all of use that I so there in the to -- associated different it's different there Generally A with not try it's but important assets. it's deep, a is to is not pieces as Sure. your that lot that, movements value when questions. I'll about we aligned term But have you it go note tie-out. into are so too there, and while

other vintage on to milestones legacy that is that is a generally, so relationship and you revenue. But moving vintage one-to-one see the value.The And fair on top moves value that business. the forth, asset so, recovery fair of based and necessarily depending with have what piece won't line we

X assets As a that. that just reminder, remain there were in

more with a to the purchase isn't respect anymore come compensation. incentive be is then that cash year. won't that quarter an it's then metrics those that and business. the finally, our we I do while is of mentioned in accruals accrual carry. other the This as with those following both bonuses. employees out as and annual has quantitative pay now, with true we And off piece so, of of and aligned the conclusion, our earlier, up qualitative based seeing to this And fourth to This And

Christopher Bogart

]. cash like capital performance the system you interest case careful both aside significant is our YPF of this we tied leaving a example, investment knowledge the amount leverage to of So, most well. in the judgment. very where which firms let's for a I I've compensation long take very ours, our do is is let -- talked over -- about the why human costs of which Marcel accrual variable this about overlay comments And [ and and mismatch I'll make for just a a indeed, well next time. costs, the been compensation portfolio, are term? passed term Schreiber about think Jordan of couple like in and me that, expense the payments.So, our the comments. webcast operating cash question past just have vast very term?Before and from doing example, as the over see our One couple a of And should is operating how over which the bulk costs. Can payments to are How is performance, is detail should we between if you case we from and are think structure variable costs long fixed

don't financial Now but yet. have any we passed judgment, a cash it's

XXXX senior getting more is performance.And the outcomes. generated is all So more in more base success and increasing haven't salaries totally with which fixed -- and on cash terms performance-based cash-driven nobody sheer and compensation Jon in associated deal true But more cash both of scale operating if on because going but we're to our the terms where YPF we more operating of have get compensation the on leverage, you the and the are also you the of the be leverage, of paid in of -- of more costs. comp Until some based me base yet, YPF.So, we accruing to a your is get is working are you except obviously expense sales, dependent business's in to and our there salary of business yes, terms size. here

a average decade. factors most a to is in that this X ticket linear size businesses, business -- X it the that. larger. -- doesn't it less than deal requires effort function, last not require times it doesn't by much has effort do as significantly it's like up gone Our multiple so And It over investing times

unique its certainly just where hedge leverage.That its operating to that's -- our more hire is people business adding sizes. as people. need to current of the a in by and any do new additional size double business double those is we element, that said, by continues could an unlike you doubling We without adding a position There get the So to size require assets the fund there people continue expand, do business. the

of much getting comments left. my So introductory

Jordan Licht

benefits, talked G&A. think salaries mean, the I couple thinking salaries about comp.I mentioned, the you're -- bonuses qualitative question so I'll elements, talked summarize and about compensation legacy a on about and talk you to about incentive carry, employees. are our other these the when we the to people. performance asset and number I the hit of and previous are incentive benefits not with a business, it. the business given think try I of piece I long-term to question previous Obviously, the look, comp think the about obviously, -- the and annual quantitative of metrics and tied and to are is on respect recovery tied both annual as the and projecting, just the generally

the $X.X and I seen haven't past mentioned We obviously, quarterlies. -- moving with to mean, restatement to we the expense million respect period this

and the a is we as significantly expenses cases year-over-year.And accounting. be that into of capitalized the foresee some in obviously move piece is asset. which seen don't some There and those case-related I those repeating the so, this itself cannot are the then final And expenditures, haven't quirk in

those. some can't just and I'd predict we say growing do the he those so, weren't to legal on idiosyncratic so of like outcome we also I predict cases, is there the be it But larger where might expense Chris down. today, can't much come And those I don't all and of expect anticipating. them that foresee what expenses

So -- levels but previous we've years. that that normalizing towards seen I in more see

Christopher Bogart

top one question. the we the but And we're I close to of hour, squeeze can last think

one on operator, have do you the so, And phone?

Operator

Howlett today question from Matthew last B. Our Riley. comes from

Matthew Howlett

great and My see congrats could any task. it all type Chris back SEC we you it been and see compliance was question terms where some GAAP, adjustments adopt tend mean Jordan, not a look where in value fair you internally a having fair of I quarter the there companies I whether not value on and are with non-cash of to GAAP. Has we guys is at with discussion or or a time out compensation. would small core getting 'XX, non-core know this in reconciliation every number mark?

Jordan Licht

Yes.

can the end back the that's reflection day, mean with is that think old the to our way with method? I duration I of the go Look, time to assets. these with what and money the we value another I we saying, there SEC own -- think, came of upon of associated the at is conclusion and of hey, concept

duration that in other have change to value experience past would fair volatile reflect asset. those of rates part in rates the to in been just they the the values. removing and over do exactly can put change and to and fair the that than a appropriate recent periods. believe then is method more of that know time overlays it I then some have asset just because frustrating itself is when we where is that it we we be in in so sure I'm of of But go all want And going are to not value going that

Matthew Howlett

I give give and the whether both, number of give then a but showing I mean, of adjustments core realize was a you. you'd it you'd number, more GAAP kind of that... Got sort

Christopher Bogart

Yes. give -- Well, we

at said I numbers, rather I Sort numbers. of look earlier, GAAP back going like than just to what adjusting the cash

not random numbers, Jon coming is -- that these we we cash us we think and are judgment the coming? get see as look money you when Like, numbers, it's I case, happen -- and opposed fact when a I fact basically case, the positive trial about the and how so So until things cases reporting cash and that in asking, sit is along metric. and win Jon we in and return the but it that win those But That the we with at are numbers, so realization nice the way. emotion of up all to for the it's get we that travel direction paid. and another certainly that's the

it. cash.We're appreciate If -- thanks, I Matt, which at the you don't I now metrics, GAAP the overtime so look don't, like

overtime, your you for all we're thank So, much attention. very

If please be for to pretty fantastic all Always you And have for is your turning very again, support we in in get assist. questions to happy much that out -- to what year super you to thank be once always us. a didn't with you, touch happy us.

Jonathan Molot

you. Thank

Operator

That much today's joining. call you for conference very Thank concludes everybody.

your disconnect lines. now of may day. rest You Have great a your

Burford Capital Limited (BUR) 13 Sep 232023 Q2 Earnings call transcript