AFG - Earnings call 4 2023 | American Financial Group, Inc.

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Operator

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the American Financial Group Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2023 Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions]. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Diane Weidner, Vice President, Investor Relations. ahead. go Please

Diane P. Weidner

morning, Quarter Good our to Financial yesterday American fourth Thank Earnings and Results Fourth afternoon. results year XXXX and released Conference Group's quarter you. full welcome Call. XXXX We

and supplement the during under section. portions investor release, today's Relations press webcast are AFG's Investor be posted will materials call. presentation These of website on referenced Our

Brian III of American Co-CEOs joined I'm Hertzman, CFO. Craig AFG's and this morning by Lindner, Group; Carl and Lindner Financial

to to webcast. Before attention draw I like discussion I Slide your our over the of Carl, turn on notes to would the X

today Some risks in of our or and AFG's uncertainties We our the description on with operating are earnings, financial cause filings financial also matters forward-looking. and that from a to uncertainties net the differ to forward-looking website. to are our which Exchange certain detailed core remarks be be these non-GAAP can in involve in found responses Commission, to these results questions. A and/or available discussed condition of statements may references risks include could Securities actual These and materially statements. measure,

materially may finally, A factual transcript you be reconciliation earnings statements. net And core earnings the are contain errors included reviewed for or it alter or could of authorized intent a in please release. it earnings or reading as to is a note call, result, of our not meaning this operating of that net if may that And our accuracy. transcription

pleased III Carl Lindner to to discuss over results. I'm turn to Now our call the

Carl Lindner

questions. Craig Q&A, Brian open full details. from highlights year remarks it walk through then any and more I'll and respond quarter begin up and my AFG's will few morning. a Good to will Craig, for I sharing results, I where after which We'll fourth by

a ending AFG. quarter year Fourth for great to a strong was

continue to the operating equity we capital create nearly effective In a our shareholders XXXX, X% grew by during producing XX% addition for written year. premiums through of in on to management. return And core net value

culture mix disciplined professionals, compelling Our outperform entrepreneurial astute an and collectively and of time. many investment us of over philosophy team operating enabled to have businesses of Specialty our peers Insurance in-house

Craig and the for of I'll great to over some I to our us team employees results. helping management these walk our now us and to achieve God, discussion these thank talented turn Craig details. through

Craig Lindner

Thanks, Carl.

core XX.X%. you'll ROE AFG's of net $XX.XX X the return equity, recent is of quarter operating operating balances full average end most were equity share XXXX, As for per on Slide AOCI. generating This a calculated an see earnings of year the shareholders' core X, on using excluding

shareholders of of Carl confidence and reflects Returning capital future. in financial an As our capital our priorities. position component one to and noted, management capital management our is AFG's highest financial is our strategy our strong important

$XXX XXXX, We've in common per million returned and including $X.XX to stock repurchases. $XXX in $XXX million during share million or $XXX regular shareholders in special share million dividends dividends,

per and We're book XX.X% in we've for share was October share repurchases XXXX. of share quarterly XX.X% to $X.XX annual rate increased plus an proud in billion was totaled value the XXXX. the an by payments beginning time. our years, Growth and X created past Dividend impressive value per dividend dividends adjusted of over $X.XX shareholders in over of

Turning to Slides and X X.

quarter. end hold produced per of $X.XX which core continue that gain on of share XXXX $X.XX at Net earnings equity that an we on per return core XX.X%. fourth operating on an quarter after-tax of net the $X.XX fourth of fair see You'll value changes share earnings include securities quarter non-core securities annualized share included the of to realized per

billion and liquidity. investment an share portfolio I'd about our Now $XX.X a few comments performance, and on AFG's details to to of position, financial presented and X. overview are like Slides capital X turn surrounding investment AFG's The

Looking the approximately than X% XXXX Casualty net & higher period. quarter. income was at Property results comparable investment the for fourth

December of year-over-year the interest a impact impact increased alternative ended for the by and XXXX, P&C rates invested investment investments, Excluding the XX, as balances net insurance result income of at XX% of assets. of months X our rising higher operations

new months P&C the December AFG. higher XX For XXXX ended investment income $XXX and X% XXXX, than million, XX, was net approximately for a record

increased investments, investment for operations year-over-year. our XXXX Excluding at net XX% P&C insurance alternative income

fixed rates invested In reinvestment in duration X.X% able the XXXX. fixed on in December is strategically P&C investments advantage rates approximately fourth opportunities quarter X% the our As invest was rate was you'll of portfolio, our cash the fourth at in including P&C to lows. XXXX. XX% interest quarter. The favorably to of compared approximately X, alternative at as Current equivalents, quarter our yield of $X.X return We've and from The the recent maturity see during to cash Slide annualized maturities. year historic to current approximately of X.X% environment, the yields increased X.X%. market on approximately interest duration of fixed managed in on maturities we're compare XXXX for portfolio XX, fixed securities portfolio maturity have prior take earned

the averaged represent seeing years, of of investments, rates the and returns to several exceptionally of XX% on these Following we're rental portfolio. supply over alternative investment about which years investments X multifamily strong of the impact which on out increased tied leveling half housing, past our

expect into XXXX. We headwinds to these continue

The investments occupancy Multifamily generate very remain X% the prospects geographic we over and regarding years net of approximately and investments on XX, December to continue properties operating strong optimistic as ended XXXX. on alternative return desirable average past the in term, these to income have our annual high in Housing rates. XX%. XXXX, return compared was Longer alternative investments was The for XX.X% X calendar P&C XXXX positioning

at Slide to XXXX. XX, where position turn you'll financial of summary a AFG's Please X, find December

companies is calculate number capital, to XXXX. dividend XX, considering likely This diversity recently we most approximately share providing of $X.XX payable had dividend a to and special January on to companies future. from compared end of at cash specific per excess the announced away Yesterday, of AFG million the our move peer of paid and February $XXX reviewing we're And capital excess company's practice XXXX. in disclosures capital excess a XX, in of quarterly dividend $X.XX on the the addition regular share XXXX. special per how

the We additional to to remainder dividends provides year. generate the ample or continue XXXX, special expect share opportunity excess our operations which capital throughout over significant for of next repurchases

important We value term. long per value continue performance of growth as by is to measured the book total plus dividends creation view an over measure in share

XXXX. per P&C by XX.X%. value fixed AFG's which dividends XXXX, increased AFG's losses now over the adjusted by value to XX.X% per our results Carl back related share plus share plus For the operations. book XX increased call to months turn ended dividends, December XX, to of unrealized I'll during discuss maturities book excludes the

Carl Lindner

you, Thank Craig.

new exposures, returns meeting continued Specialty grow favorable opportunities businesses pricing We records production nearly seeing of targeted we're set with Casualty turn X and Property all XX an to proud record for increasing or webcast. Property very and through XX.X%. to Casualty We're full XXXX, opportunities overall a underwriting profitable to premium results please Specialty profitability of you pleased in new if our combined consistent exceeding of Slides ratio and report of businesses. in our over and and years. Now underwriting We're environment. the many strong the I'm of year for our

ratio than on combined Casualty our an a nice generated XX.X% see to quarter, you'll The Property quarter in reported XXXX. operations a in About businesses exceptional Specialty strong point prior the insurance As fourth reported X, a higher XX.X% outstanding year. year quarter. the fourth of Slide Property Casualty Specialty finish X fourth successful and and the

point XXXX and fourth quarter Fourth favorable & with than up last increases about previous Average were workers' fourth Group, than reported higher of across premiums the net year prior when including rates and Casualty in X.X% written Gross comp include approximately written for quarter compared compared X%, the reserve the X.X% rates workers' of both increased X Results for catastrophe points X.X% points the year's XXXX. the quarter quarter the gross line premiums up same renewal our compensation, XXXX. X% in excluding quarter, to X%, XXXX losses, XXXX. business, year were Fourth and net development the X% points up period in and for to X% higher X.X% in in point pricing our respectively, renewal approximately renewal quarter. renewal Property in the quarter, full was prior of

we -- believe trends XXth to increases, we This increases rate renewal of or in overall overall loss ratio consecutive excess are and is returns. our targeted exceed to achieving renewal report meet prospective rate quarter rate

that property-related our we addition focusing are In in to renewal inflationary on pricing, businesses reflect considerations. premiums ensure our insured to values

and businesses The comparable are on a combined XX.X% review Property in to earnings I'd Group in calendar year last line Casualty our a to in here. included and turn XX% the from groups. business XX summary ratio year. in period with Slide to in each fourth Now the results the quarter, overall highlights so release, Property Details of the I'll achieved achieved focus Specialty Transportation like our few

businesses. net up when X% crop, Fourth X gross Excluding group the renewals compared points respectively, partially quarter to related XXXX in of quarter, premium of in was slightly improved our to were and quarter which the crop fourth year-over-year. the several and primarily in to higher Transportation fourth due written acquisition, ratio the calendar XXXX combined this by year CRS premiums group offset this timing X%,

average X% Pricing overall. the X this full rates quarter group increased this up renewal fourth on the was the than X% for point group Overall previous for in in higher year quarter. XXXX, of

when to XXth rate our business. continue Auto we to is remain in line loss severity XXXX. back in We this increases Commercial Gaining particularly adequacy, in first auto business. commercial our Liability of identified This of rate focused on uptick year an in

peers. our at time, some a than is rate So for starting it different we've and pleased of point our that been for we're increases long

the combined the Businesses the compared reported respectively, same businesses and at combined year prior returns Casualty an margins exceptionally underwriting XXXX written With year net these generating quarter. in increased Group and period. these in quarter levels, when strong XX.X% Specialty premiums achieved X%, the prior Fourth than XX.X% ratio year gross in the X.X mid-XXs. calendar in X% overall the higher are period. in fourth to comparable ratios points our

the X% the in group, the X about X% quarter. excluding and point X% group overall, was for overall. the up fourth Renewal for workers' with business measures pricing quarter workers' previous excluding was this up pricing this up down renewal year, X% both up for from Pricing full was and comp in our comp,

XX% the Specialty XX.X% the over and points XX%, gross the prior margins and outstanding when was the same up of and continued Renewal XXXX. for group to pricing XXXX Group written and Financial quarter period. combined to of excellent year compared an ratio points quarter. fourth this in Renewal quarter in X.X group respectively, year improvement for premiums XXXX, up full XX% fourth reported up pricing achieve underwriting net quarter, an in this accelerating were Fourth the year. was of the from XXXX period full the X% for X% X previous

many various other a guidance of As yesterday's earnings a for noted share release. fourth net per earnings its year in guidance for measures years, as core range of AFG provided the new part operating quarter established earnings release, and

following have provide reviewing share other decided beginning per no range guidance a with and measures longer in and earnings practices shareholders, or analysts a industry After core we discussions number and of guidance XXXX. peer of we'll

created a our that from creation. as on long-term historically As long-term our compared We of guidance strong noted metrics clear grow a throughout per and level it's greater focus shareholder to record book share. been value value a that generating peer has returns providing creation that believe this a equity always value distraction has by ROEs strong companies, call, of

As this believe with a that aligns change result, focus. we that

assumptions of plan, guidance, net alternative X% compared and X% growth a of underlying Slide $X.X premiums assumptions provided business to a you'll summarized in last our on which X.X% XX.X% for rate lieu approximately year, a reinvestment we investments. have XXXX, return billion of of to approximately see achieved on in In key of include: written combined ratio XXXX portfolio several XX. These XXXX though our similar

per expect considerations on share believe the disclosures focus included XXXX, in We and line core that the plan over approximately XXXX approximately operating of performance our would investors that generate that result $XX are the a business return in detailed XX%. value. We in in and operating earnings equity, with of our sufficiently and long-term assumptions our with shareholder AOCI, course of will discussions clear drive on excluding core

Craig continuing of answer Our exceptionally IR our and our for long-term forward record full our proven remain team and track report investors and and these strong to year business. fourth quarter look about team the we're creation. available proud I of results are and to to management to value educate questions pleased

Casualty professionals Our $XX team and billion insurance exercised marketplace. been and of our knowledge investment to their in the in-house the Property and our experience both investment have Specialty opportunistic skillfully management portfolio. has strategic And navigate

to We're shareholders continue well XXXX to and our build for long-term positioned beyond. in value

the open your call. I And Brian be of today's for and questions. respond Q&A happy we'll and portion to Now would line the to Craig

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our from Lederer question with Charlie comes line of the first Citi.

Charles Lederer

comp just break me? can softer years casualty hear that development, to Wondering, I nonworkers' market XXXX quarter? you reserve years you reserve 'XX prior Can accident to development versus in please the across guess, out for the the

Brian Hertzman

calendar development seen some with prior so of Brian by in This look XXXX question, most and adverse consistent On where we've development periods. seen year Casualty, we've you out is that Hertzman. years XXXX, coming that's of, if at

If it full to in trends. to Casualty, you understand best look the we it's for overall at think development look year at

year the in the ratio So perspective year XX% thing talking the businesses that at so year, very we're keep ROEs calendar for businesses. with combined about I strong looking full mid-XXs, to think the do full with in is of performing the to first

we previous As discussed quarters. some in of the

the For being levels have as workers' our in our medical the lower as business, for considering years, about XXXX, full price going of mindful and some development that year did experience well as of favorable forward. cost potential comp initial have picks come in recent loss inflation in decreases down reflecting the we

development talked adverse in social sector. inflation from We like public quarters about in some previous areas

be activity, which any business large quarters different had an with As E&S the across company -- occasional can business, that can various be time, lines has we year. there loss there in in over of

Charles Lederer

that, adverse I 'XX in lines you were guess, it. 'XX That's I and quarter? the you on you the was say did it. Did the said say helpful. at what if that Got missed sorry that beginning, those

Brian Hertzman

of that's In the inflation-exposed and most wasn't all the year, of the social, in that social So for inflation. -- most the on coming quarter, it necessarily businesses.

could occasional the, that Some the of losses large like in E&S. was happen something just that

Charles Lederer

it. Got

you're plan, on premium guess, and would able of for expecting the embedded like a be parse crop? versus And of just much the Okay. business? then what including maybe of I then you that, business rest out, I non-CRS to from growth guess, kind in your how perspective kind the of and CRS

Carl Lindner

factor of also business We're some next the I'm of, by a futures month this prices November away from we've kind believe, is the contract moved segment for talking in The February soybeans. average the determined premium on color segment. happy part of in contract, to crop you so determination I crop. in is or is December year kind and of corn the volatility the and which the for give

of the at average look February. you pricing month the When whole the current the current pricing, of -- it's

until know exactly down on impact of the the what premiums we don't February get end are. So we to the

X% view aren't commodity projected to that would of premiums current I going reflects that. can't the previously large our we as you be as think tell our prices. what that in crop I because

the business business basis written on will up about we that With that this a CRS added, year. for gross be XX% premium

Charles Lederer

lower? materially expect pricing That's retention one helpful. crop follow-up. changes in any Would is your guess plans you if just I

Carl Lindner

spring what the in of by to see at happens February. may pricing positive ] it revenue for I from prices, protection argue probably fact, exposure up think come that you're from if starting coverage, off corn lower significant amounts censuses be prices one ends [ a if lower or revenue you being off things of the soybeans price the that's, end and discovery could tougher

you of So from levels, premium, price We'll that standpoint can lower a ways. kind sense. but both a -- have from lower cut maybe have those decline that makes if from exposure base price

Operator

question line comes next Our with Paul Newsome the Sandler. from Piper of

Jon Paul Newsome

to on the being inflation your to pricing Wanted moment, target. think continue of the to maybe could, that sort you Is high. the very the of above touch ROE are expect you are margins achieve about you thinking is have today? At is where increases to Good a targeted for morning. call. the back you returns? Thanks comments maintain the achieve sufficiently to Or sort that really comment price you that that current

Carl Lindner

think lead Yes. exceed that Overall to some achieving businesses, in our overall overall, levels other targets. loss price our price. those ratio Paul, towards we're targets are our increase meeting I excess trends in might the in prospective increases In businesses, would lead -- they returns of business.

for few meeting we're a are think the today of returns. I businesses businesses, targeted our almost all except blessed

Jon Paul Newsome

little we Maybe a could turn Great. management to capital bit.

Focused I think you view being you've XXx aggressive pieces attractive got haven't more you've is of a past, just about been. there the a on stock seen special But view it's allocation different of is all thoughts stock which together? EPS, repurchase. environment kind those how or in your dividend. XXx, general your of on the talked where and kind of on the of huge Is M&A because in your that capital still view? Or sort

Carl Lindner

these I that attractively every itself. kinds building in growth, over We based we've is this large But an is we're market of repurchasing obviously, dividends the can stock business of be a capital We've approach. amounts think and especially take value organic building shares here different where that been the think opportunistic year -- returns, past generating year excess or at priority Yes, in mix important. also the special shown we valued. our is on

make that time. sense we returns buyers at over us side, of always acquiring and for and building double-digit businesses, we're M&A but earn and the We starting on lots things are things tough in look businesses can

substantial in has annual dividend our been time. the, seen annual over You've increase our

annual still think mix. That's increase also. to value shareholders also a way think our different So our Each year the in consistent is going dividend about things. a we be we

Operator

Michael next BMO comes question Zaremski Markets. of Capital line Our from with the

Michael Zaremski

-- sure equates reflect to ratio of guidance as for investors' minds, on of ROE, ], a crop a was XXXX make next and year inflationary A&E kind in If think there of X% to ding adverse little believe X% was very strong of normal. kind wanted below bit, we social development. pothole we was a kind maybe an to ultimately Just what the a combined through in course. [ There from of I earnings. a bit

I about I'm make sure want guess thinking those to just like correctly. So that, --

I go-forward don't can like am you returns combined the higher, if trying maybe maybe be might I, I just I higher, out. pricing still on of ex ratio basis, to excellent just through trend kind improve moving the think as something? trend missing a a even I I the calling expect So is is those little if started a to but out because, guess moving I'm is just but pricing not just guess, guess I trend, excess -- just items

Carl Lindner

and I think same the return that's business ratio level. a plans combined is very the at projecting we're our for similar,

Certainly comparison that's We of on the underwriting and stronger on one have to year. a great peers, performances our really on in return equity.

of comp as like year. our average were the giving plan, in when this crop profit have look you development, year a wasn't when past, an we that there less is underwriting it hail for results -- that be below were that will on you so we, in average we're as the in as so said, workers' way And year and had planning that business guidance, there's as that in together but outstanding results, had and year, proud we've, large. back we businesses, -- this those businesses favorable There's crop the

as the way plan the how would to with used that we give build get as that's, is guidance far really we we way there. our So consistent

off Our is business of past. our guidance plan based in generally the

Craig Lindner

Craig. is this below see below I that certainly this on One recognize plan Mike, assumption to level somewhat we and the to return basis. need that expect on what a on go-forward is year's is thing think you in historical an alternatives

private in billion invested in balance is alternatives. half $X.X multifamily the About have more in that traditional equity and investments. invested of We

fantastic return our of plan high like return a we're assuming give we for the single-digit view alternative properties multifamily, little multifamily of single-digit longer on XXXX, To our on our a the term. investments. And past. color asset balance returns in and We've class generated still our the on low a

said X -- XX% conference return in the annual I we've return last As a the script, over call years. averaged

with markets. very another of very multifamily and XX% growth. population in our are XX%. Carolina We attractive Phoenix investments; represent markets North Florida and Dallas, Colorado strong They're

So is recent in the have the been the growth, recent markets population attractive new the impacting new our we rates at with past, ability bulk the past. the push of builds to that builds have way in

through to of inventory, So properties. take XX to we this work think going supply the XX months it's to new new multifamily

than -- expect will the that the strong done have generate plus, But push And be for returns. what expectations to recent we've investments more XX% that. then the would if long-term rates line better rental past historically, we done do a we in alternative with our in ability we've on return and of you,

If of use year's it normalized of as per to which [ you $X.XX return ] normalize would $X.X share kind XX% EPS, about number, ROE. the this is add a and

is unusually these exposure, look low year. returns, return term be I a needs that recognize going hurt something you that this at And take expectations. year's normalized to our this it's to think think of significant calendar I multifamily is when an expectation which investors need because near that earnings to for So

Michael Zaremski

Okay.

helps. That Okay.

investors think that. understand will I

Okay.

Brian. and might for Lastly, be this

XX%? thinking future the release as weren't potentially there opportunities? the target would debt there, to to if lever? and is of, about if, the if excess cash capital not I that is be below capital debt is You don't the company's about there I'm moving Or a excess option But parent the be triangulating an I of extent on know the thinking kind those maybe some right a clarify all believe the company it's M&A should to and a we XX%? issue that. max capital, Or it's threshold Just parts, can of to in something way,

Brian Hertzman

yes. So

is sort guideline XX% of the for a us. So

money maximum, not if we look our leave shareholders' perspective. for the we opportunity value does the towards a right to creation would it borrowing that at rate the presented So go that a over sense that, if environment at But, and long-term possibility right the makes that couldn't from move ratio itself. as from open

be immediate the table, not would but it in plan. our on So

Operator

[Operator next from Instructions] of Andersen Our question comes Andrew line the Jefferies. with

Andrew Andersen

the or you underlying profit underwriting Could large bit assumption? mentioned Was expand that Casualty? press Property on trend does it losses In release, in And on lower you E&S. just a that? reflect in loss a change

Carl Lindner

Yes.

I think the for put The XXs. [indiscernible] you in quarter combined ratio the perspective. got to that was in the

an side quarter whole was you, Brian development when Casualty the social So, year, from said, to less the favorable comp the year, it in with. some large on the of in perspective the you when reserve had difference there the loss activity. outstanding was, and put the workers' ratio start some whole combined quarters, in And impact And for some as inflation.

to look trends that's us. way the think to and at if right trying back for look I you're

Andrew Andersen

And seeing E&S? change any you are competitive within environment in the

Carl Lindner

I think more sector a and property in competition on It not interest more seems competition expanding we're side. business on our E&S been E&S the like bit some some We've on, more maybe that the side. there. Property

competitors, pricing make the much D&O pricing positive positive thought quarter, on don't fourth and have on think I there and seeing been where a as we've side, trend, levels that the double things many the digit. other which we're I in In side capital the has we that too sense down public down single it saw I interesting being too D&O. digit, been saw think

was that So positive.

front, Vanliner -- Auto moved which They're I quarter XX positive think fourth thing on another National competitive pricing Commercial Interstate a to in and positive double plus, XX% to our as to in we pricing. sign. see the saw was digit moved the I

Andrew Andersen

'XX? maybe of the time kind line this a a CRS, but for from just quarter. million that's rate good suspect that in is a numbers expense quick other of I higher amortization question. $XX run And in

Brian Hertzman

line at for looking So item it other looks our of like sort expenses. you're corporate

operations Property falls is everything of what expense that's and show not that into and So we our line Casualty interest part the then separately. really

line. holding investment So the in of earned But that net income expenses company by also that's any mostly parent it's company.

a when in to there's there of things fourth it previous the of quarter compare quarters, couple particularly you on XXXX. So in the going quarter

quarter parent bigger tend One cash most there of of the during down XXXX, keep operations. and things company is P&C investment cash had of fourth balances in levels in our as at we and to we the of that the the lower investments

magnified in fourth the of expenses, So sort And that was XXXX is of lower $X and to then same XXXX. number the about income investment in quarter. in a of we happened fourth XXXX couple compared million into sort that one-off in to netted also have that a the quarter by XXXX, of benefit just elevated the quarter of

plans this stock year. benefit of didn't tied benefit to employee the market, that recur are related a XXXX, to some quarter we the fourth had In that

look XXXX about forward, income, say the consider different, we're million I probably go the and the So in lower I something that's when fourth at XXXX it is run investment would things versus $X would at would quarter that the a you I are company looking of quarter parent rate. which

of things that in run items one-off put other in I something wouldn't the really but are could The consider happen any rate. sort that quarter, them I

Carl Lindner

year what overall. ended in excellent And that. underwriting the line to clear. look was of to you business whole ratio had be excess E&S, for the be we in go it quarter, excess E&S results the with in fourth our want combined at, just with that part just look liability on up liability When would I in at you the business, umbrella back if would umbrella and and

Operator

line Bruyette, of the question next from comes & Our Shields Woods. Keefe, Meyer with

Meyer Shields

Great.

don't combined the there include we for some In outlook explicitly not provide reserve at I maybe to call or expectations. anymore, anticipated? reserve measure development. out it understand want ratio a terms of and way should There of I are your there's whether does lease that same just whether that, the want to say guidance look expectations few of understanding, companies sort some who but

Brian Hertzman

This is Brian.

we the optimistic that disclose So favorable combined kind overall, when ratio. -- we're and potential explicitly we conservatively -- our reserves prior development we like we look wouldn't ratio prior and optimistically feel for for any future of our future combined components our about at set development of

price that occurred important at catastrophe recent other and I increases, know along did you points is of very our position in been things And really think with it's losses on and like our social if retention. we look frequency we to look XXXX, to the at think experiences years. plan react catastrophe for like XXXX, focused that reserve we've inflation, higher in cat We terms conditions strong.

And the area. about that of sort we're actions so in good

if look put think overall, say we some So we good could wouldn't reserves and about are. we're explicitly in I anything where year anything there prior have optimistic to feel our you development, that about while

Meyer Shields

just Perfect. regard with Carl, hoping expectation to Okay. what the I that to flesh out? wanted issues Transportation. I mentioned you was entails. timing could understand you some

Carl Lindner

you not, what was? I that? repeat I'm unsure could couldn't -- the question

Meyer Shields

I'm sorry.

'XX? that? mentioned fourth the understand Or growth. talking with how regard when Property deferred So some of think, quarter to quarter first to segment, was you And of the I just whether timing, should Transportation you're think and about to premium about some we looking that

Brian Hertzman

moved quarters It's stuff really this to quarters. some other time between

term things or a different like that. different month policy renew have a Sometimes in things with

Meyer Shields

of your expectations Okay. versus Outside XXXX? And for crop, about in XXXX talk you Reinsurance then purchasing one question. final can

Brian Hertzman

the out other cat? our Are So our talking all across you're reinsurance? the on separating cat lines? general focusing you program in from traditional just non-cat about So reinsurance of

Meyer Shields

Both.

Brian Hertzman

mostly up increased property side, for cat here property catastrophe in we increased the in and we as XXXX, some have both business. our reinsurance cat exposures to that so for business renew institutions treaty E&S financial attachment XXXX. On The our treaty due our our point exposure moved did from

$XX a we'll level million a So at million attaching be level. of instead $XX

you about the reinsurance in reinsurance if is for So property think cat $XX our of million. tower, then have $XX traditional We million. million $XX so the retention excess

any for up place end our bond providing and the in coverage is event vast in then cat through bond of that of top cat of XXXX. comes $XXX the that million, a on And single to majority

coverage. less cost reinsurance, the it The and XXXX. is risk-adjusted was return the So so cost lower XXXX buying of than actually on the slightly we're for in -- in that

reinsurance for balance of cover, reinsurance as by and unit think they attractive unit look that an the return the purchase provides at property business year-by-year company. units far business outside As that cat of to risk it business our where and

be real each XXXX there's when XXXX, I expect trend right coverage So versus determining will careful whole look at each retentions overall a there. the reinsurance we business are in unit year. you our wouldn't no across the as super company but different

Operator

over currently for Weidner to further like hand time. this questions back And I'm no closing at Diane call to the showing remarks. I'd

Diane P. Weidner

with and all a we and forward Thank have day. great talking quarter. all to us as XXXX. next you all reviewed you, joining year Shannon, for this our you for We look again thank morning full Hope results fourth quarter you

Operator

Thank call. conference today's your you concludes This participation. for

disconnect. now may You

American Financial (AFG) 7 Feb 242023 Q4 Earnings call transcript