Triumph Financial (TFIN) 26 Jan 232022 Q4 Earnings call transcript

Company Profile

Participants

Luke Wyse	executive
Aaron Graft	executive
Jared Shaw	analyst
William Voss	executive
Todd Ritterbusch	executive
Brady Gailey	analyst
Gary Tenner	analyst
Tim Valdez	executive
Matt Olney	analyst
Melissa Forman	executive
Bradley Milsaps	analyst

Call transcript

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Luke Wyse

Good morning, it's 7 o'clock sharp. Thank you for being with us. It's time for our Fourth Quarter Earnings Call. Since the last time we spoke, we re-branded the company to Triumph Financial and changed our ticker to TFIN.

As a result, some of the backgrounds and logos may be a little different today. of we're part we're with all doing. it's aligning going where what But morning President of Aaron Tim Voss, joined and Financial; by We're this of President Valdez, Executive of Financial TriumphPay, of Melissa Forman, Chief Ritterbusch, our Officer of Bank. Triumph the Financial; President Graft, Todd Officer Triumph TBK Chief Brad Triumph;

were helpful like overwhelmingly of call last the to feedback the following Most open I'd you. It's positive. today to so for your from by thoughts thanking you hear quarter.

this us. However, new for is format a

we'll to we So continue and tweak there go things as here forward.

of So day. headwinds, let's get of opportunity. to the and lot are a Financial business quarter, a freight while seeing there the solid had also are we Triumph

letter our will the and our Last today. published call evening, we quarterly basis form That our of letter. quarterly results shareholder

However, risks I before remind are differ. to any no obligation this conversation like Those forward-looking uncertainties publicly include and revise company you undertakes results and subject actual that that to statements we forward-looking cause anticipated statements. statements. started, may to The would get to could

to statement. refer please call All subject in today's harbor safe made safe published last details, For evening. our shareholder comments that to are during statement harbor letter the

the With our and to Aaron Q&A call that, kick session. to I'd for like turn off to over a welcome Aaron?

Aaron Graft

our I Thank for going you, been Luke. we've this a questions. since just have us. comments turn you everyone, few then to and joining Good over letter, has practice morning, been for it and as thank we're publishing

segment. known role in for have very been years, he welcome him Tim the and factoring to Valdez we're The at leading our part in last first Tim, for has to to years, our and is the comment I've X.X call. Triumph he several grateful of Triumph is

specifically last was TriumphPay. notes is should material projected want reviewing course, were revenue higher in were and understand What is to our fact I we the come, expense enterprise think X segment. growth comes other conforming transactions, expenses XX by that that the out year. any expect year. in if to easy of investors published of a it's touch And used it which from overlook with of the market expense investors on anything X letter, $X year. call to That billion to the should growth. Two in of the now January that other XXXX, $X network went not from over tied across XX, the billion promise inflation point conforming what to transactions are out feat things will to we there's, in on January of reinvestment, we corresponding that we call X than over no throughout network we go up, accompanied growth is but if a growth that during this that you tied the some XX% just about the we a growth it that improve -- called expenses expense that result level at other questions as thing the for turn is evening, before I year. In to include on and in we going And should does to to questions of the expense as amount analysts TriumphPay's to words, revenue by margins show letter, growth assume be Another itself, transactions, in

to money environment, this as support as activities excited for continue good that TriumphPay That was parent. own that thing plan. And to back thing was to it's part its that the especially the generate in long is rate been I about contribute see well very a of our quarter. business The has other to self-funding float

questions. for it turn of those we're comments and with over opening the way, to investors ready so to out And analysts

Operator

from [Operator Fargo. first Shaw Instructions] Wells question Jared Our comes from

Jared Shaw

Maybe over to the -- is 'XX, about much in course will the ramp just of advance revenues higher in year is expenses of the reaction how be with revenues. invested how the over thinking that to expense much an question, of going the coming of just be we of it versus should sticking immediate that -- how be

you that is could it So in how if of it based tell expense? on of expense? should hiring, comp that advance And technology revenue? Is us be much

Aaron Graft

going I from the with has, which then mean that specific Brad all can expense The deviate of XX% to to start expense going not that and roughly it's is to mirror that. materially be generally, his is people. I'll thoughts. add Triumph largely going

I to you than of weighted should basis. would the you on a half that? else back anything quarter-by-quarter the towards expect linear to rather growth think see Brad, expense add the year

William Voss

I we would that's say the today. do we quarter projections flat and to in where are have for letter, relative that already first relatively the

compensation So March. I our toward year. adjustments would do agree, back in it be the team half We will the for of weighted

bit of lift in second quarter. little a see a you'll So there the

Beyond on that, at heavily which comes revenue the will it in. pace be dependent the

Jared Shaw

talked of costs that of sorry, specific Aaron, transportation earnings course comment from reverses transportation we be of costs letter, tied muted growth last the transportation Or around muted? sort earnings how should may be about trajectory that then, thinking weeks. is for to -- you And the Okay. growth few in overall? net about Is a time

Aaron Graft

That earnings be like which should business frankly, transportation. cyclical we every ours, presentation like do in a to exposed in Sure. a comment, is business

we're think hope market ] done freight But any now strengthness I we sure to long lows. most the industry we've not that seeing right Tim do, is is some no has anyone time the a business. the is been the I'm And hope. of [ a thing and in period what of is do of So it idea November is going most going continue. the will an off that forward. What it profitable just our thing has idea. idea. factoring profitable has have our for don't I

should materially, the business So on die and will and this been built not freight expect has live We've projected, be profitable. as weakens if to it alone. market we if transportation you weakens

that not is profitable on to said, specific to enterprise. in in $XXX a tied generally But I as to foresee factoring put a we move $XX a will be we've we earnings, so which year. And given the our income. can't any where point transportation are us contributes very of the million of for It's pretax prices difficult invoice the at scenario end

seeing now. about we're the So we're excited right strength

then whatever to advantage it We take may even will short-term negative our be we're if market profitable have an going no balance freight worse, continue. is sheet going whether that to a position enterprise. that if And idea use get of as our come, recession we're position, does for to And strength earnings.

Jared Shaw

then funding your Okay. for just finally deposit low. are extremely And me, costs

costs, down. able costs in done one, do able you if to great that? I -- you doubled You've you near guess, not advantage? job balance sheet to a And if sheet why and that have incremental not a deposit your bring been balance earnings of you're drive in even why term the the to how have try more funding while expand keeping expand the NII little

William Voss

exception haven't to managed else. our deposit rate not question. for raised Thank done published basis. and put special we take an anything high we pricing What have out respect CDs on to with I'll haven't one. related is have any promotions deposits is or we we've What the we you rates, that done

every And day. from going the field, to it we deposits relationship, to And forward. decide to That's we I every not. basis that's XX exception quarter. or that make XX yes, we market So how the the makes requests of to more in and how whether day, we've sense have get that managed manage plan looking our pricing it through are out the for on

Aaron Graft

as themselves. you're growth you there? talk Maybe the the of part present about seeing was And bank the opportunities related Todd, other what to could question in

Todd Ritterbusch

Yes.

So where We obviously, constrained. to grow. we're can like not we'd grow

areas in than more attractive some seen are we've time. returns We risk-adjusted in seeing lending some

pursue And we're lending so past. will seen than more you've you to the see growth in And in those. going

Operator

Our KBW. Gailey from next from comes question Brady

Brady Gailey

could power probably what company wide what be the to Triumph are I scenario it's TPay. like talked been a overall the with do years know it's of I away. EPS multiple -- But for long-term how And for it's just since like and a -- know feels start we've this while are case like I power? biggest you could what the amount But profitability EPS it wanted bull ultimate about And maximum think range. about have? eventually that variables that change that the

Aaron Graft

Yes. Fantastic question.

of So X let's at it the just business. from look of parts each the

over community The So we we disciplined last community bank bank. few been years. the the have have

to ability love up, the letter we bank balance you sheet. which we've we're opportunities be our it seeing most of they go frankly think grow banks. As they to out know are we it's We appropriate but going community higher are. year, we hurdles, This think because hits must love called funds. in there. ROE We that loans our a to we risk-adjusted place than at done see, price higher, our work the And were cost internal the didn't the

stand-alone you for And Community it's looked if ROA Bank so earn a itself going by at the sure. basis, a on to over X%

Triumph We Jared's is data a X contribute, X.X% historical ROA. has what is talked call, delta a that with generated transportation that is we Second, to the buy segment. buy tied $X,XXX time, long hard lot does period between doing? of those $X,XXX we a pretax just work you've got a as between invoice. invoice the our this a on what factoring And X% to and -- do of to business as to market what about Over

at the just more. that generate business And bank, can normalized, if not ROA call anything so we the of if results look we roughly if should Xx community normalized,

loan back back and thought so to if of underlying loan going your business together, to of ROA this X% above the doing our we you're was XXXX called well, that the -- if that and those a of our X exceed would easily I in is factoring rest run bank the to and just I XX% the what book projection at the businesses made had goes those XX% thesis community is of out second you And ROE, book projections. quarter a

was reason chose we reinvest very lofty in -- reason delivered the but we we to didn't The because great hit didn't goals we results, TriumphPay. those

as to a to math can much TriumphPay even. you We'd a So even do is X% company? for be we as our break But closer goal would be if ROA not that segment, of number. TriumphPay where the just break

margins Our a goal kind deliver the that deliver. should is to network or operating a payments TriumphPay business of for SaaS

how and So see least at to is in the if our consistent deliver bank continues past ROA top an now right TriumphPay to an competitive done an our shareholders. consistent get with opportunities at -- of is to front how goals, then deliver done, we we Triumph on we peer the deliver and in it returns long-term it with we of the continues community and us be the for very basis ROA its any and should, to ROE set

Brady Gailey

right. from number? any ROA very All the top -- And of stat what number a could specific look ROCE like or what

Aaron Graft

excess right over an math its forward of give basis. Voss that's to EBITDA I would I out to we the operate say, mean, me I where ROA being goals second were if laid punch business potential. might think TriumphPay in you that of But hitting I on equal, of because and excess projection now, future. those the X operating quarter it goals should for of reach It things be want their margin Brad in it walk of are all if the should our of -- of out in of ROE, should at segments all XXXX. XX% in we be and It back X% that be

Brady Gailey

so last you -- look -- A that at this -- So year, the you it almost if if $X you at time so was look base, if and asset billion.

continue to $X.X about should to the down Should about How here? it's we should that what billion. A think base be? asset Now decline

Aaron Graft

are we, asset measure thing collectively you think need but big by by don't profitability. are. creating first how really our base. ourselves ourselves care I, We speak about The understand measure is, couldn't durable for I we I We to less for we I

could it's If it's lower. generate can So now the our because only years asset we very X growth. be well leverage base operating from through we larger, think that

it what know don't I be. So will

concerned needs as more way base. borrowing generating I'm the up it our generating needs about going of the concerned What the we more of asset in the about income as interest grow. -- meet clients. interested significantly. more I'm even that's the generating of network I'm concerned generating TriumphPay transactions some of comes fee it the that nature But income is way I'm float off about income

is you It if Triumph as Capital approximately, that called, to in as are or that goal Triumph do as we dominate whole and player that not market, is market. market transportation at Capital, a whole, now XX% our it's our market. that for look well to good because material the that's goal market to of the Business be factoring Triumph For is It roughly a factoring TriumphPay. Business market, a we want

think get our at of close Community small customers. as grow don't in market could asset I $XX the billion. because that involved that with our don't But Bank can enough the us material I you'll segment, in fact factoring So growth grows, our with we which to it. exceptions deposit I to Todd happen we true President think segment. like pricing us see of stayed we're our Bank, Community leaves Ritterbusch, that that's

or an profitable make really to and have just don't smaller. more aspiration us. bigger We be defensible, we so what and that's the want sheet to balance And drives more

Brady Gailey

assets? in for the guys like then $XX just or assets, business interchange. comes [indiscernible] that even know anything, and It the if impact Triumph the billion And into $XX Okay. you're in nowhere were to model last possibility? to the $XX you're a are Durbin I dynamic direction. But me. over is billion if the close over growing does topping play question headed feels go What's Or billion? you work in

Aaron Graft

in in as here, I never long in $XX over go we sit As will sit I seat, the billion assets.

$XX over we just make billion. if $XX to hit at can Why I me. doesn't I don't -- X% than it top would go profitability think we marks generate we billion, can more. I smaller mean think sense

a not, even foresee number. scenario time work I can that Triumph I to model in organization. get can as this think any TriumphPay But of will larger in the we the business network and is currently much it payments at that close constituted,

Brady Gailey

cross X say Like $XX big profitability over diminished like because day is of ]? But did Triumph is TFIN? assets a for the a bank in over there it headwinds to sells $XX billion, Tinder [ billion earnings

Aaron Graft

service freight of nature affected change whole Bank inside generate the materially provide The we how we a the Community factoring the add other than a because and would to TriumphPay carriers. by fees not the you of of bunch No, it's not Amendment. regulation. Durbin on factors, that's be wouldn't anything Durbin wouldn't That's And would affected nature brokers constructed. It's subscription not by Amendment. change, the

that so in any can of size And bank. live

Brady Gailey

Okay. Great.

Operator

from Our comes next question Davidson. from Gary Tenner D.A.

Gary Tenner

of the So et TBC a couple can the of in regarding use follow-up at questions slow at -- to phrased questions. you count, pivot you to TPay were But at at your wanted embedded wondering existing Is do head reduced just the that pull reduce to to meaningfully? if infrastructure that? freight over cost that commentary kind could of part technology cetera, ask how more use just TBC. TBC, the that potentially technology you to usage quickly about enhancing I'm letter if business,

Tim Valdez

had was see my good the prior tremendous a only to the platform. technology to the available industry what that into position today. the TPay we I visibility for factoring division, do And joining that as really but not I at on So to boost

Aaron Graft

our less just just fast, is called make Triumph, our have to going important up sure the growth, make and growth. grow super factoring efficiency about can last and we the just -- the has double-digit growth. haven't level that just And to and one have. on in we I or improve also for And segment and to but is what of it's drive have X undercut numbers benefits to echoing on driven when same more working think that Yes. talked initiatives of example, quality put And service experienced pricing. that we in It's profitability you he's you it I we Tim portfolio, is better important seeing reason for because customer Tim of Tim market top largely don't things beta deposit we TriumphPay, able much you're for reason with us that our saw, is by we what the to letter of the take out want integration you're because the ever-increasing some of on -- said, the this is that its it's

We the profitability segment. much in to possible are improve going business and goes as as greater words, that defend efficiency. as margin the to and In will other through lead total FTE growth volume that less up,

Gary Tenner

different legacy a again being maybe, of a more ask type than kind risk to it have the of in Aaron, about guess you I business business past credit talked an know the business. risk factoring in way, earnings of I

think quickly slowdown? offset do would be you is there Or a apply slowing, as a that in would is freight that an anything to be earnings of trade So kind issue about way to you nothing to risk that able that?

Aaron Graft

better, No, question we inside is factoring really our who to And more our really, answer understanding that I segment you. industry. good less the of have at my our wise is of expense, people Gary. be or don't I and understand XX% systems of think would are the understanding hundreds people.

not want to I and get spin very go And of making in want just the that you're cuts is more exact more, we available. through me go wrong spin to because to so start just freight, best you talented to we thing but go but want just seeing headwinds cut to some to the people. It's make do. to talent -- to mean, always underperformers, cuts

do more by on headwinds used any do done people. in be company going and we to are a that is freight, more march to processes technology think I Away factoring any successful as and apart from to have short-term

tons being of more business made. longer to that we're because are not of There's a in moderate arc in going pull short investments freight. that business term levers But seeing so slowdown buttons No long-term efficient. time, that a and push we And question. have implications gets on just the in

Gary Tenner

And of but in of And an time on the that. point? maybe to factoring in then bit sort kind signs in this early a the it's cycle, of fourth in any the invoices changes Any you that, purchased obviously, at seen Appreciate adjunct the quarter. of slowdown signs have business. still a collection

you're maybe So factor I the receivables if was that's I quarter. in don't a down that on collections? noticed yield little some know bit indicator extension the an the over seeing

Aaron Graft

not this slowdown. seen we At point, that have

seen to fact, an we erosion matter in we our get how of As volume customers more do do an improvement. a have seen collection not we've drops of We January our off the an improve. than and But ratio does opportunity in collect December, pay.

Gary Tenner

last then me. question for And

As you the Is returns? Is credit traditional lending? were seeing really this group? community liquid talking, bank are lending you're at opportunities? looking Todd, where this Is opportunities. those it about better risk-adjusted Where you

Todd Ritterbusch

the lending of Yes, opportunities. traditional it more is

X term risk-adjusted X just shied We So required real or we that feel that loans. the commercial we years from are returns ago, attractive estate were to didn't over away traditional provide. the

risk-adjusted rate fixed for looking see financing. are some more term we Now returns we there, and attractive

we have So to that be careful in space.

We careful opportunities. some will but in space, that we interesting are seeing be

Operator

question from from comes next Stephens. Our Matt Olney

Matt Olney

some TPay out other exiting billion going I the here think that your margin letter. there. that's forecast. payments thanks in check to in all gave goals out the TPay I insights the want on talked and our annualized for are always some 'XX, EBITDA to about. And more The 'XX. we've I dig that of Aaron, of exiting I into want appreciate goals there. I appreciate guidance updated help comments that to you $XX

had some the line we assume the think that with on goal Is you industry? in based reasonable spoke, that should even this pretty in a sight onboarding time still coming the process we headwinds months. last good I you saw of

Melissa Forman

I Matt, last path we board year. Tier on still would of this the have being place half Yes. We looking that in talked in quarter still some it's for Xs say, and coming in of our goal. first the that about are those

we're So right along. tracking

Aaron Graft

these can year? long And on to integrations, doing Matt, $XX period the number, say of Well, and we're amount of way the and invoices you is will tell an at the be have of us is number what of team the time. long-term be. what size Melissa the because What the you would That's brokers say tell and will the focused the excellence as win. I pipeline you've would the more end this, Tier more exact they take me heard is reinforces giving going And work a the it and just exact network. billion -- of X done and just outstanding. I what the bringing be, power in that I are

but at number the out of So there will the billion, that -- specific still end to the is it would around highly goal be where correlated the $XX year. be is market

Matt Olney

Yes.

that it some on are exiting today my payments. sign guess are that being is yet. up for additional a and signed talked Thanks of it's on guess I assumption past, the in the Any of Tier a not or specific integrated additional stretch to thoughts give goal the goal But the think billion to commentary. Okay. Xs in list past $XX have about would 'XX? I we've still on. appreciate number that not more other of well, tough on not I Definitely was the require number 'XX, exiting

Aaron Graft

number. Well, because But than it goal that that way that want the was billion actually up -- $XX million only as side the go ahead. you out $XXX expect, was more she I'll revenue is, We're, about in can another the that start might to interested thing volume, and equation. you knows better clean the point was tied to then of I way to goal me. revenue. she

would the we're we're seeing gives which we're to years per the us even were opportunity of that few What revenue a that million we're at monetizing network the say the short a is So you rate volume one we of than else Melissa? achieve greater the after, good after. things ago,

Melissa Forman

speak exactly to, what was I to Aaron, that's perfect. going That's

Matt Olney

the lastly, that just I somewhat looks last think the on like and disclosed just momentum network. section break specific of maybe come -- moved TPay number of of I brokers disclosure? how in sideways a the Any guess you and you a in of TPay letter, then in reflected freight over And factors number payment the -- comments that's that It not we've few quarters. Okay.

Melissa Forman

Aaron. take I Yes, that, can

you're has the that that X So do quarter, we X broker specifically volatility number, had the consolidated in they're side, brokers And to of inactive our on gone. seeing the another during with with mean had were X doesn't we another that that clients.

So you're seeing some movement specifically just through those factors.

Operator

Our Sandler from from Brad next comes question Milsaps Piper Company.

Bradley Milsaps

platform? Or in. Tier Aaron, from that I as it growth. or alluded improvement Melissa charging doubling expect your net exiting revenue that to manifest X year existing to you just interest you least margin itself And on back the go wanted more expect brokers that EBITDA revenue. users mentioned in Does do of increasing more In fee you certainly to kicking revenues fee the come the of from, to 'XX, the at letter, more income? now a more from a of implies minimum

Just wanted to you get over next playing a out sense of year? of the that how see kind

William Voss

expert the Melissa this. is on

her we'll this question. So take let

Melissa Forman

Brad. you, Thank Yes.

So I would say it's both.

given So customers away years to of for our our the value allowed it. several see for we have network and free

we're and that to the able So with to come be those getting. they're now to fees able value back associated that charge

business we network that that's obviously, out on goal business, the of but have of new it's the So market repricing share, it's and to also gaining keep going some today. the our

William Voss

is largely it And fees.

Melissa Forman

is it yes, like, fees. largely is It

Aaron Graft

Brad, a one, really is X bit, get in but if you growth sense made -- to can go leverage to ago, year you on substantially on or you back wanted fee wherever was any when that anyone down just it get drill not could anyone leverage it, because income market. cost money could focus little X and last years And the

as income. help their the exceptionally if we yes, we as you are generate where income, to fee think But in TriumphPay we use we growth. well, at is they're and in net the journey, goal the come So future. To balance in on that's today, sheet income to can look growth, this extent that interest yields going net Network is are our the about high. where interest clients transactions

it's and And Melissa -- said. we're then help use but are we going It's us blend. can that clients help everything advantage bank So being reason, a if we bank to for a have. a and our win that a business, we

Bradley Milsaps

right at up you're I is look or comments made [indiscernible] But to so, start basis that Should been revenue over think that you TPay on I you XX the And way charging it, processing, Aaron. don't know be points. the measure as number invoices running about? it's the if the to based we this XX right what's about if pushing work? percentage

Aaron Graft

below is I things it's say per -- revenue are the question we answer would So to well historical is your transaction where the pricing now.

different per then we've to where versus forward materially working You we to team we you, we generate rest I going to can for percentage want today really the because going specific it. of have I'm higher. revenue the not monetize million expect to to historically laid as in give we and is, But you that question things point ways. and on, a this volume the understand and difficulty Melissa is in answering are you out were this that on bring

But the new low business the for drive modeling that question business simple we're booking now. if XX answer to points, to basis your is planning XX frankly, and we are to where where you're is

Bradley Milsaps

Okay. on And then finally capital. maybe

have. past lot the talked You've the a you excess capital about in

the high-cost just discount, Is got your capital some it on secondly, preferreds books there. to curious, a completed the out. on those assume lot accelerated business. was thoughts then safe I will And they're all trust need but to You run don't out share taking know in I be repurchase of you've calendar at 'XX? a year

are bigger of And picture, seems why been there lot unknowns. aggressive a the so then buyback? maybe you've with It

get and You pushing us of where focused of you right so back is need I just And there don't that are Who of many much you seems do. there? coming? none unknowns focused on kind now lot on on stocks Again, like like based you are out, really it where know be undervalued just might going. your opportunities you're at what don't out knows transportation when thinking But pushing so your lot I why know a there? curious but and it's a capital, really

William Voss

$XX that in the certainly talked probably this share the be done year, program Brad, of end million accelerated second we by will that about calendar quarter. repurchase

our fully it and business and shrink we're as payments in that we base, capital desire reflected the not all that to our with what the As current fits way share far our price. base share building believe is overall together our

as that that to true, own with remains to excess long as retire our would love So capital. we of some shares continue

Aaron Graft

if and not whole approaching could you mean, balance and over the see the manner. discipline our I know I Brad few you've in the shown gotten cavalier share we've And hopefully, we're a add in repurchases the to -- years. sheet team, last

buffers we of see in bank. came what no seen all, or have failing in are we bank movie some and that matter of First there, no out desire up. near that opportunities repurchase I've cleaned because it any a significant movie. to again regulatory failing over a we I pretty XXXX kind maintain thresholds bought when

the But very to to creates the that thing, it's margin very exists going the uncertainty always we make we're of what have your So a is safety. point, sure opportunity.

you, be If priced until was can where not certain, today. it assure we it is waited would I stock our

$XX a growth can think all be M&A to if the think dividend. doing. to do at market what which going prices once done, specific unless million we're and do a grow not not the value we're does a going are not expect in going it of has at I but upfront, we We don't back ASR purpose. pile is not for will our share long-term intrinsic in we to level very pay this So just sake, reflect we're We're you

So our that reduce being to that a use above and the it's thresholds we share to to we capital think funds of that case, need the maintain, our have we shareholders return buffers good fact the count.

Bradley Milsaps

quarter? of taking my cost question. trust out think Great. I Any on thoughts the X% was your in those some That's preferreds? final

William Voss

out X to those to provide going a soon. capital They're anytime know. We're common Tier going to are hit those Brad, It be those would to as rate trust capital not preferreds, equity take They taking not out. you floating valuable be us. anywhere.

Operator

comes Julian ] [ James. from question next Tunis Raymond from Our

Unknown Analyst

Business Triumph seasonality. volume XQ quarter-over-quarter to to down 'XX guided previously being You Capital due XX%

signs in then to decline a expect the in happen, volumes, still do XQ that see of and Given steep strength you you're decline? market to relatively XX% starting with that

Aaron Graft

how shareholder very The impacts very forward, And look business. predict, to notice, being carriers it's interesting at as in but baseline stated a look letter at -- and our about it's difficult is our at that dynamic I average the a going thing we the amount, we invoice is performance it built. look don't the business new we as there

but we future. predict don't we the any can't further anticipate erosion, So

William Voss

utilization. us baseline know, And it's the as we baseline We've go of to utilization. it's we their interest. because what which below for by is think What's established It's not you X carriers predict will hard -- plus things. invoice a size average don't there's economic think in

that thought of now, but than change we end a As it right would little today. the of it's by be, can better

this a can So that's time. at as make as prediction good we

Unknown Analyst

say, you respect And achieve kind to rates hope static control, prices do volume that TPay then you And kind to still just to invoice and of be can at type need at current EBITDA $X,XXX, would what of of you XXXX? in were with remain what at, to transaction Understood. looking if breakeven?

Melissa Forman

say you between So between is Triumph the quite top I to difference the can we invoice factoring it do the expect my level right thing difference average I can't of is the invoice But understand average price invoice here. and down have the different. average calculate transaction volume head is One to TriumphPay's to of that off what differ. the

TriumphPay, from truck And has the ours modes. transactions we $X,XXX. brokers that's is more that inclusive all and in Factoring are the their focus typically payments So on load we're because in market. our specialized see of and making spot full that

And so to those going are be higher.

of have and combination our On side, the we contract spot.

improvement EBITDA the add that? with thing see, volatility it's that the do again, with most focus that to and to predict. Do I revenue improvement -- margin we to with a or slower expense on you will so and margin the higher climb. revenue intend hard is want we that, But again, and And important EBITDA improvement come to that think, understanding that

William Voss

generates do valuable And year. most are we thing, things. out. payment. only thing this most the It's not do and out. it's do the this most I'd TriumphPay network We just Joe, it's many the us. transactions, thing This audit, valuable called a that Well, offering we in right? we revenue for The And called we it does $X billion say -- is why we is unilateral. it because also the did

network we're So of the as with of it's not payments simple it's level saying just nature the this making, engagement of it's as what is volume constituents.

companies total get To we that number. to is pays slowing number transactions long network we exciting. before X% why value a pointing transactions extent get what we're market, network grow in the revenue that we the out means to grew excited the face offering. almost are And we're That's in any things volume you. X the or about freight everything quarter-over-quarter. factoring it of That's else, faster of to can we're than we That the seeing

the about brokered $XXX years closer talking And number fell. the danger total we around. volume couple Today, just being in addressable put of market What sizes or probably invoice ago a that And a Average moves in to market the of freight. addressable $XXX that's total changed? billion. total billion is out other

down means billion. to just to on. in freight we $XXX focus market attractive. so less and It nothing moving, ranges brokered And could trend the that about make that Doesn't think is

sides the If course, Tier of which brokers volume those what are to joining you course, for think of really the is want grow factors about X Yes, to delivers of come transactions of in And presented, and what most the invoices what trucking. that's from. -- That's because how that's sticky. transforming audited to value fees both the it is being what the the paid growth. and is value efficiency is, things after, network. are we're TriumphPay makes network. network long-term the it just what proposition yes, That's But where

I focused. be So would that's where

Unknown Analyst

to If of receptive current back are proposition? companies about, I either you you more fees go were to your or brokers could talking light market, the value actually seeing being factoring those in

Melissa Forman

would certainly, efficiencies. recessionary look operational for to periods I say, require everybody Yes.

they us. TriumphPay for those is they're as that looking to problems that, that so technology solve answer. do believe And Certainly, to we

there, the doors conversations are continue we're grow. happening, And we open to so the and -- are

So we're excited about that and the opportunities we have ahead of us.

Unknown Analyst

just X Got then in if it. And last could sneak one. I

and understand for you going revenue larger a of call, If what X TPay. this to is lot would revenue. to be consider X commentary we're you? Well, from does on Your you come a composition to this earlier talked success? look about represent like income fee I of share your a then to What out, that years expectation for

Aaron Graft

If seeing we're would order, just consider that of I number... talking success that short in a

Unknown Analyst

that would range be Just any you it appropriate? think

Aaron Graft

Yes.

So I to to be We factoring balance call, bank don't, but time efficient, The sheet of materially. We're -- balance grow I'm is bank sheet not going to caveat, question. The that's and want that because this sheet right? to established. good have balance we our things, want in because make the we've growth. to our already afraid even a or hesitating smart balance tell at me bank sheet the size I'm what affect not

income to understand, of both rate either that would fee transactions a on between move we to it and what you are if look or material now currently the factoring at is look and in TriumphPay's segment, where telling what look there's understand income grow, we're calling at assume segment and and which network revenue, net you not it where that mean, want fee So we're those banking interest movement more mix is are the is at I the has then that, side. for true, I that that run revenue income

put still higher single-digit if call I journey But longer-term coming. a a the movement. single-digit we an so curve would probably it together, that would a win on all were I think inflection you in And there's because if movement, be that point

we business, together. now, TriumphPay to try line sheet to a When not but Right is work But is we're for how that. balance give the how what start it's is day of a even of together concept, about TriumphPay overall our is as making. support concept other think establishes valuable greatest like about we the then now this doing which we to just there's now that, to balance revenue we have think and be is And sheet business all. works whole achieve does a because and time the a segments. to this the great, profitability revenue we're And nature just profitability the accretive investment generate better to in defensible is going we

the not into angles question. come a that. around And we I'm trying so all about you to the trying think journey. as help it's talk that to just I'm see play

your best my that's question. So at shot answering

Operator

time. are there at no on And further line questions this this

now we'll the line phone Q&A. to for So you. over move further Thank

comes question first Our with [indiscernible]. Paul Instructions] [Operator from Ghosh

Unknown Analyst

take effective or priced lot maybe the it And people network. being audit first another business is are related or yield cohorts on backlog, is of in the X value way, pricing. way adding kind is year about kind think are today In X rate a way and from X about that to to of TPay a or provided different the on payment, network is we from you My to by is audit have are are getting question some or network kind of there using network? do more kind someone think some the priced transaction, you're and of mixes. What services, of the ago one whole and people rate new basically of you the today? way What take on payment it customer the [indiscernible]

Melissa Forman

like they're doing the of that through. the all matters on as I you well. mean if services, they're putting it Yes. that the certainly customer, And said, ranges volume size based the

to XX And up points so basis you see XX. you're you XX in said anywhere -- today, from like to

It they're to doing pieces integration that the that leveraging on of the the hard And say. so it's network. it's and from depends relationship the amount just the -- really situation, and they're

the have brokers mean pieces in mind, Keep and and they proprietary pay large that systems it try use most next. might differently use differently, that than

it of changes. we typically X customized conversations so and are And and have every situations so that those

Aaron Graft

signs customer for or they network. a is for how there, up up don't clarification of point audit payments, sign a just And

end of a and audit If you're network on on both payment, for the then automatically payment becomes the audit person and transaction transaction. enabled is it and enabled other the

fairway, and a side. or on per is but me Melissa the factors, of this, walking freight the the that's That $X,XXX shipper we're roughly higher. on on lot that payor and million, and revenue will, think, will $X,XXX of broker transaction, size per if you payor I And million on And depend the between but of okay? correct side

less bears is does for able pricing on that that payee bad materially. payor direction transactions, the materially X of but depend going efficiency would and network the understand the roughly Also again, more $X.XX, I -- sound know that's mean, payee some to to say call ago than we doing that the years to gives work increase I economic burden is because them you to, we sizing, and didn't debt. than were different because around, what even

else anything discovering as add? go we So little there's bit we're a would -- what of and else, you

Melissa Forman

value. have to they as at seeing They're that receptive. say very gone just there, customers in -- would the looked transactions and network I are we adding the payee our the

We to this network are that the transaction. TriumphPay test. transactions proven meaningful in have participants know the We

on in so that getting good responsiveness of the very term we're front putting sheets people right And now. we're

Operator

line. phone Instructions] the [Operator from we And time, have at this further questions no

Aaron Graft

all you you Thank joining and see a great day, we'll us. for soon. Have

Operator

Thank call. for This you your today's concludes participation.

disconnect at time. any You may

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