Triumph Financial (TFIN) 18 Jul 242024 Q2 Earnings call transcript

Company Profile

Participants

Luke Wyse	executive
Aaron Graft	executive
Timothy Switzer	analyst
Melissa Forman	executive
Gary Tenner	analyst
Tim Valdez	executive
Joseph Yanchunis	analyst
Jordan Ghent	analyst
William Voss	executive
Harold Goetsch	analyst
Frank Schiraldi	analyst

Call transcript

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Luke Wyse

Good morning. It's 9:30 in Dallas.

So let's get started. We'd like to open by thanking you for your interest in Triumph Financial and for joining us this morning to discuss our Second Quarter Results. With that, let's get to business. Aaron's letter last evening discussed the quarter's results and the investments we are making in a few projects that we believe will create long-term shareholder value.

and the a see benefits network participants improving about industry lift to excited America's while create for and that transparency are opportunities to we in all truckers. We value creating delivers tangible

As joining Todd you'll in trenches is be difficult during get us. and to see lead Todd afraid market not morning, the this will never conditions.

speedy from a recovery quarterly basis of being the reminded well is not our contact However, him We the after on expect back today, shareholder and form that earnings QX. and surgery published his he to today. welcome call our call Achilles Tendon last evening will is That him sport. recovering letter wish to results Pickleball quarterly in

to include risks and conversation to that However, before any company remind cause that differ. we you The forward-looking forward-looking statement. subject no to Those undertakes get may statements and are uncertainties results to actual could obligation like this anticipated started, revise statements. would publicly I

For last evening. the details, published are made today's during harbor shareholder comments subject safe and call our statement. please harbor that All letter safe statement refer to to

to that, to Aaron and call I'd the our kick over off like Q&A. welcome a With for to Aaron? turn

Aaron Graft

in I all density. joining you progress thank opening and Luke, Thanks, a us have this few up questions. building for quarter The our this is morning. for just it before comments big story

today. engagement network XX% stands as Our at here just sit we under

the works follows And with Robinson related what economies. to of mass the signing the achieving network top density. is line density. This it and we monetization our C.H. a sight in quarter, going network to XX a With during ArcBest, way broker have is live critical

momentum tremendous right We now. of have amount a

mainly There long-term control me path are some wrote earnings the horizon. the at why become we we letter. creating And time results. our that down are expense people present, for in not see on to on live a are slow the on lost on control. about we eyes for reasons under Now that's choosing invest horizon, I the at is have some in And it that things and what present. is the short-term the can our while the or cannot I In most value might defensive. think That our continue we improving we focused forward, we when of pressure

intentional. that taken enhance view additional in We can to our will closing, appropriate cavalier. Instead, technology the not allows prospects, to stakes think guardrail to an at profitability expenses is to cavalier. it do about room forces healthy our us $XX talent our aspirational be promises quarter for extreme, our and be make be million high. long an some is the going us per want and are on customers and fixing And be deliver short Now we approximately want term forward. This our to disciplined it to This we our and management. both to growth to the investments our term. In us

very a Those that win who opportunities for building harder to the find even thoughts. market. rewards large many are absolutely make them. when find and worth effort on in my are those execute to a network to many many hard you We opening it. The connects Those to are

Now over questions. for let's the turn call

Operator

from comes question first Our Tim from Instructions] Switzer [Operator KBW.

Timothy Switzer

on best recovering Achilles the Certainly, wish there. Todd the

it on quarters, more it the you us of or What needs has revenue bit chunky TPay guys the XX% I above in invoices. kind factors brokers growth this simply The revenue-generating that? in for revenue to more kind through in there? quarter. acceleration is slowed was happen segment and network, an Can X walk been see historically, us but the year-over-year recession, last the to And a down is first have question in of it

Melissa Forman

You just those nailed it's things. X it,

so And growing you've is those short-term for seen, recession But headwinds. as issue transportation is Triumph an through earnings. creating certainly, the

thing we've is expense just our while while to had one had so point growth X% want growth, under -- growth payment XX%. quarter And quarter-over-quarter, I that our volume was we've expense and growth network out quarter our it And year-over-year growth. same engagement was -- also

And a side. lot on the you're seeing of fee happen that

is able as the can. our of market fee the that network volatility much part control most as of that So we be think majority we is where important to in remove growth, the is can we which to

certainly, customers, about of seeing we're And talked we seeing so using happen customers, that, in new the in bring our revenue. new growth past, as on happen mix that models. you're our continue those in are there, as the we've And changes to reprice pricing

Timothy Switzer

at Okay. quarter. made increases from And And it you little little more charge? the seen become from the generating more invoices, seeing being is effective follow-up you XX% this doing progress able And there of your a that? implementing you've you're on are some to What year-over-year. revenue to strategies guess, on to, XX% my over what under challenges went more guys I a are

Melissa Forman

a that's question. Yes, great

the in feel where that's we the we right? So difficulty like building this connectivity, network are building is And [indiscernible].

so connecting so that value network. to the other from network-enabled taking that and it's the they can factor And on come transactions them side the see

slowed changes. you gets the XX% grow a bigger transactions so denominator, at one, This your pretty the that's percentage the little and But quarter-over-quarter. get, harder it growth. right? The And bit a harder bigger because seen down network you've substantially us it

And network sure is I'm those the happen, not relationships X enabled just enabled, so what the because and It's to saying side factoring it though, every making connect it's when I is can factor. a a on factor's system And transaction broker's is to have connecting that's that broker management has enabled. a different.

is build who's think being start network. portfolio network, on building can you foundation. when when at that in through connections connected about now we're and from the XX% factor's of is perspective, a the now. about XX% so And that building the When their monetization start those to we're density We're you where to

We factor of where the side. and continue whatever side is the work real that's play. network and value the ensure on is broker into comes consumable available And to on that that on usable the

Aaron Graft

why it something You because the did. But think it I here more I anyone things mousetrap, what can't go which -- answer who what wouldn't thought to off? Well, I it's it is Tim, think want take question just they and of think if before I've go a it's Melissa this absolutely against I why add question. think, here thing of a fighting then the slow product the only all you're better bias And about, why fast. any we've better just is believe uses Like -- than fair I be do if built right? a is we change. Like it's doesn't it's believes,

I hard think changes it in change personal -- life, for Change a is corporation. hard. hard in -- is your

experience of to exactly me? value adding is How I I cards at so gaining it's these using that were are it am know plastic? you was Where people go create is starts didn't and there we just what to faster Where go retailers, help this, when efficiency? like think the go fast the this, probably introduced And because does and said X change. the first, form faster payment. why credit we -- more by Melissa connections, taking of as And they I

our you phase the change over goals, we is XX to bias that density long-term have what's to the the what C.H. overcome to last the economics. years. worked But of network can this continuing the on Adding because the building ArcBest, resistance XX%, crossing change adding see in will overcome adding for not to density just Robinson, volume,

in and but you're X team doing pushing around a you But a You to a can what the just "Oh that. your we so at going great, down made progress." always have field things to business look then lot doesn't why change. think time, And of in see, have man, see measured to I and yards feel Melissa ball is the like how quarter-to-quarter, sometimes the turn X are it that's keep and and

Timothy Switzer

of effect I If might more. in where squeeze you -- know network Is talking really the about. -- it's you answer, tax we're impossible this occurs? could a start to guys to guess really have threshold do one any exponential -- that an I that need see idea question there Okay. appreciate that that I density I to of but what's it. be when you of

Aaron Graft

We're great doesn't who at include What Yes. XX% Robinson that's by year. that That we've I end volume. question. the volume cross XX% over said doesn't the to now. of mean, are lot this It on. of a of people the already expect any include a we is

precise be know if precise what we term, been long can here. but said we've So about I've I don't it, ever historically,

through the can from of efficiencies. start transactions the our are get staffing XX%, I models companies the than to to recognize I economies transaction, XXXX, their And network, think opportunity I 'XX think see to that, XX%? scale I of forward. years but density. we're continue can't 'XX XX, their and No, half most exactly more the we'll come on to December mean see build between Does with they who XX% and the can true, density. and pathway If answer to that's who their ones benefit that XX% to at factoring of that connect adjust to start the side the somewhere said the I to on are the

of revenue. no there's open, threshold for opened and say long building change get XX% first saying to monetization XX% to the industry to to tail order and value to growing impossible that's but window to mover, magical And So that grow we be ultimate why investors half deliver number, get able to time. penetration and to that between of being still I because and permission 'XX and XX% are the you're density should somewhere the not I'm XX%. this density not going think it's it's between I'm constituents. And ever we're in that revenue. is grow last like the asking understand I letter 'XX need our that asking to

a a that's where it answer, and band, think So that's precise is. that's we not

Operator

Our next comes Davidson. Gary question from from D.A. Tenner

Gary Tenner

Payments I kind a maybe volume in slowed the about conforming of continues the growth. as volume, wanted of ask to segment, to of percentage the it's increase pace from total

maybe XX% I think Melissa pointed you quarter. this out,

let's you quarter a of C.H say, coming you of about their out think gate. C.H quarter the for up second if will, As volume the But live, of what 'XX the think the penetration terms just of full of argument. kind is run Robinson rate, sake of conforming in and Robinson kind rate, addition pulling does you do

Melissa Forman

percentages your and a total you across when going spread answer change because little I'll have the factor, be one factors, of to factoring it I'll that industry, that the to take perspective connected bit differently, and the network. are do Yes. their from volume to they because all

So on C.H volume portfolios to XX%, company, most their more, volume. sometimes a represent purchase average, network-enabled for factoring of entire XX% connected and to would factoring

So it's part a business. their substantial today, manually they have go of to do those validations. And everyday

an do on able their XX% being cash so through substantial. additional to And is network XX% the quite to application validate and portfolio of

Gary Tenner

Okay. that that as of of as you've in And you what what in this talked Triumph about terms for yes, talk means know terms factoring economically don't then I what to means built service, looks like? it Can benefits then exactly a it out. And about, ton. -- gets Aaron, it a

Aaron Graft

thoughts about operational I'm because think about some he's Yes. operationally answer the I'll to Tim going let share I what expert, Tim financially. and then --

go ahead, So Tim.

Tim Valdez

their to So our customer products to utilize that the is create gives I different a and ability important technology, potential about in our service technology. our what's to platform, as expertise factoring upgrade order our Gary, ultimately think think

things. one pace that So what not several thing far providers technology. as is industry factoring up But kept of we've with we've the FMS observed, observed as has specifically the

purchase and that generate instant operations and the to utilize have factors an area, originates of by doing that we're bar it. other our transactions or things we and so our we what are opportunity anyone factoring raising creating within side And doing focus invested and other in for

able that a as fund but open on load XX/X with it that not integrate service factor instant of basis. top if fund and to be being of that able of a lot you to purchase, leverage a decisions on So to only and quickly, very us a and and factoring imagine, for the doors can with value make to lot gives pay,

repairs his has going carrier situation so into value and because is And a important? situation into this the that important and cash why into have that That's holiday, he we about whatever can paper get it a specific truck and item holiday, that you bank. need goes for has a maintenance you that in you have because money to have a his

is that about need gets so money factoring it. a you the the the that as service, they carrier need And when think when they tool

and are And factor. value several add there so components a to service that factoring will

Aaron Graft

Yes.

on And Gary, our for because we no off financial pay the There side, so mean, are ultimately everything science projects do here. I shareholders, to needs right?

engaging who XX take you customers, other large and all as midsize, once because these we process, and is right? $X us. that validation, factoring. begins how it? that revenue verification, correct, a is about the there then -- invoice, once you And we So with been highly But carriers or the is they do the directionally out have things the people do that that. at years automated. there in think Well, Underwriting, They're need billion and function repeatable. about factoring to who be think can highly I transportation industry days, with happen which a you is factors you operating sell application that to factor, efficiency there are XX of we've are whether clear don't sales you've piece repeatable. don't been if and to these the industry, That can Like excellence out profitability that engage carriers, a very or look cash all want be still, all buy need small

it we invoice takes We think to find this the factors the the -- billion what report. do we more $XXX you revenue -- to be factors go this $X believe But you in in all way through That's them when industry, all and ingest million We million expenses, have it's $XXX this between to applying office efficient. to do that things the want cash right? some back believe spend in to is can't paid.

on said of be cost, $XX, large it you're have transaction. back range, the That's $X We if there's it's going hold side all that schedules customers $XX sides think of but friction would invoices, because friction you're that I will not transaction. factoring office closer the of that wide on of in between a and both factor the servicing to to buying $X be it's it's $XX. cost,

of you you get work you're servicing If a more of and small the for the because economies carrier do can't scale. them

digitizing of we But technology of is if going then and and capture efficiency. allows itself ingesting company that TriumphPay to lost factoring to all give with that is connecting operating way add the them. that So of a efficiency is the that, it to in on the can them incapable legacy that on value data them is

doing we're we're is And so industry. why to this the saying

the fee. data We have

to We of have truckload we're going in the from XX% all the And pipe brokered saying brokers. we're transactions pipe. our have

can data so You inefficiency. should you so reduce decisions, make map this to instant can you

pristine Well, their and So technology the data to isn't you able that. like documents, reading connection with the current to make don't let's do struggle to have eligible try tight.

do we -- if current technology most, And some who've are fix providers to problem. their fix problem, if and to won't problem. going go But they the to it, got paid fix that we're they haven't, for be if we it. to so expect there done that that and And

connected being spent in is $XXX this going savings window us years, transportation life software. Pulling in of in doing The is of that that's to management to inside I open the going been expense way so And the achieve financing much in to to for lives, this are what it people about, we the to giving of format that XX to $XXX done who million expect and truth, the source the -- change to it's it because carrier things. million we window broker's talked the that. that is we're factoring are last throughout create the the data data changes which provide to structured cycle transaction which the

And what at in do those how to don't reason of $XXX because Like it be XX% one we XX%, benefits, right? SaaS it's making more you cost, spend, work, but go so you will value you the all it, the that's about know also but if -- million then expect in can the share I create. of share That's of scale, businesses we network resilient. it's cut that

but big make it's market being it science to So real it's addresses we faces being because a and just not to better. can not done a It's the it Gary. done a industry make wins. go sure being that, after, for It's project. expense that It's economic done TriumphPay also

Gary Tenner

I question, perspective, the since [ it related segment like factoring or segment payments appreciate Thanks to it guess building service if from that, to I From -- last or it in service to you're a seems as Aaron. provided just I other almost this could other One out a business. a factors, mean, like could. I ] factors that. perspective, be

the just the that kind talk associated that with Can build-out expense as of load about thoughts it So there. bit? to the relates and around you a

Aaron Graft

That's it's it's starting because because we've of all exists do talked about. question segment Yes. sides. things this mean And great is to the I that why such touch question. good we're corporate a a something sort

as the me the people in is answer a it's is I it think up Let a question, service to the payments your I'm providing ends who not going service answer which network. because us -- use factoring to

anyone that the to up a logically want you like bank Lopay, Payments of a developing it we're is think to segment. gives fits. do us to to example, pay money, gets need you instantly well, earlier, checking which And a So to Lopay doesn't proof which purchasing, underneath at But being But in back done some the impress I this technology understand, p.m., in and the instant in allows that that transactions of our and Lopay, how to account. structure of because alluded at live. network, work, we've purchase they where expense able where have going account really an signed billions checking happens . But the unless money XX:XX delivery if to account really if a expense the accounts instant like segment. showing the carrier of in for Lopay it for that with intelligence that's the it all purchase just do Lopay Well, the live attaching our on you to and segment. that inside market testing XX:XX factoring and p.m. artificial banking we're their They our in happened how can is

Technology And Financial parts so business creating. X add what transitioning is are all as we of Bank to to platform we're what finding is we're Community our value

for is to FAS We network. need answer the will we a We try just the can. lot as of what I course, to payments, it we we to So do the you but payments of call bank serve use of and to And use understand, network. we host lives the and inside out best in use factoring this. factoring

ever So it's historically. than it's been probably more symbiotic

Unknown Executive

this and absolutely we that Our of evolve segments all over this It's disclosures distinct coming back our keeping will the had as around have very a set did, of the industry in we cases, when as way lot business. grows. of And X up possible kind is the intentionally lines together. And we for separate. us see all what evolved long to term. were to as serve we of build we them we And

figure look that things I that lot can't need a paint because to there's of will evolve clear picture you over So we still expect a out, of to can you that but crystal time. what like

Operator

will come Raymond next [Operator from question Yanchunis from Instructions] Joe Our James.

Joseph Yanchunis

TPay, pricing to offered. due you to much call, that guess, pricing increase XXXX from benefit currently occur. static the services the given TPay think also revenue prior not of charging different after TPay back way, not the a the market generate XXXX. challenging we you're model? to you environment, how should incremental increases dollars I elected for TPay mentioned these We're expect said migrating customer going increasing a that the new price component Or increases price in from for So density customers to a about of adding all should how or to in your a hypothetical we assuming guess, customer I

Aaron Graft

it like a It's why I mean density a can't I the to I question. question. you're But asking How Joe, the right? get on mean changes you And monetization. we And that we're market, to not formula, next it's static a it's mean this third whether quarter will totally come. enables and go I appropriate I of you volume there's Robinson, other time what, done second . know will year, is or onboard names. onboarding Robinson, right? will be C.H. the by going C.H give

for of XX%. to with when the so we Today, you renewal, these to ability come like, in this had number up contracts when be network your And be contract we're past, transactions transactions. is going that negotiated "Hey, the XX%

You model. think So staffing freight you entirely Sure. we looks factor we because the change when that." -- This the cash a your are for do application can we recession? understand pricing different holding yes, we -- that is now like did

it's Of That what create share wrote those after. scale the that this letter is, back course. -- But what create economies businesses is I constituents, benefits with then we're fans. can their and in of is

people look and efficient bottom money. "Man, did that I create that say, than do who line We the past." in to more And own we my see making at in what we so going more are can ever much is I'm

taking the piece get I , it. of so Triumph's that it And

is So go the up. answer will to continue revenue

in revenue a I before even lousy here. think XX% a quarter. our Again, fee Robinson's again, a still, you annualize quarter, quarter-to-quarter, fee and soft if but revenue annualize if lousy you it's annualized. market growth But TriumphPay, a this it in was quarter was

number ultimately if we going just we $XXX $XX a together, grow billion the to and to of that a we revenue. got have that to see That's million. to this keep to business, is we've it adding we got years, opportunity. but what And do to we a take take revenue market have $X put So you million told all

number so Robinson onboarded words, it about revenue factors and knew of static brokers the because world XX% whenever and you as the closer would now, were. you we with more see were to between go up, we if have to adding right, brokers you're that's XX% And we're in probably if and everything the the XX%, other value now, done, including

percentile, enabling we're think promise it's I going That's more to to carriers more I every done XX the a transaction. win. promise, And I you and But density the incremental betting win, there's very not and brokers that think why we -- we win we guess ultimately, and for building everyone high And win. be its is that committed coming. business staking and going what but to creates much that. like unique something can and and the is what that to I'm beyond paid. That's but Win, that -- we're we're which we're value we we factors -- at think $X network taking are say we volume every and instead expect add win want. the we be we collect amount win advantage constituents participants, for and of not of not And enduring value shouldn't focused. a brittle

Joseph Yanchunis

throughout and how of other Robinson, more customers? has since the announced I appreciate like brokers mean deal kind And how to volumes refresh factors us relates payment on both the of color interest the the you you for in much incremental the of network? changed can view balance deal, and on back to economics just contracted a can it to And it. year? the I give your come going joining pipeline online provide you

Aaron Graft

of on I individual but $X and got the never let Robinson speak that this, to can't announcement that. be factor it's the or the in I going with -- let's not us broker. do would go customer. your transaction to What and we when, by to that fully would market going going do. would whether be would my pricing Robinson far something that and how rings. price achieve exactly would and doesn't by disclose not we conforming borne our to for and we promise we're excited -- is any not to allow that about about Robinson when Yes, of part what just I it's operate. just part smallest That when you We're pipeline, per going to I'll Melissa customer, is is them and say tell analysis we're we board, thinking be it them is charge that we a what as of borne with tell for in ton Melissa, them, to it's to you partnered phone done work and as do be is that's

So you to let that take one. going I'm

Melissa Forman

the density of even headed. and very about am Yes. you I signing material announce disclose close even it in late-stage the of I just we're and status because talking our pipeline, certainly did would expect Robinson big and not continues that those it but usually Robinson just We their quarter. more that C.H C.H. excited we because network C.H market with our the don't that, say, to the contributes had integration in reiterate be just would announcements earlier. volume the I after ramped, I we felt more about contract last this strengthen and like and not XX% that if current the Aaron pipeline have that I with of that grow. live, history excited ahead integrating to was if volume about we near, sales, was we about of go pipeline where quarter, had these ArcBest we was told XXX% deals going to I excited would that this been our in the and rest but of and to year are point TriumphPay, for to all of of

today substantial that's the are was where so ramped. XX% at a XX% end C.H to the being we close to jump And the . from of year, assuming

add this bring it's it help Yes, So network the kind in about been and phones when to of it. make -- our again, the the excited it's stronger. value through market density ring to does constituents. additional able we're never But you're

Aaron Graft

the third put we of that the probably goes Robinson just until thing. one quarter me Let live, of end if next volume won't By have year, all even year.

So quarter time, that -- do in think next the of and approximately? expressing like terms I'm probably third pipeline asking in of in but real know we And dollar volume, year. what's of

Melissa Forman

I want Do say to it?

Aaron Graft

know. don't I

Melissa Forman

million, billion $XX than rather. more It's or $XX

Operator

next comes Jordan Stephens. Our Ghent from question from

Jordan Ghent

wanted just of transaction color piece of just on little to percentage getting revenue I appreciate TPay how network want improvement the been get We've the to the just from a comes of But about fees. network I volumes. more fees. much network

If that that, great. any disclose could would you be of

Melissa Forman

that broken have out that way? We

William Voss

think think we I we... I did. don't

Aaron Graft

Let that. to you on come us back

You of to disclosures that it's we've volume And fees contracts. monetizing hopefully, our that, well $X see not rolling those able a the now. should be for about We right are transaction below the now at that network quarter, in because number we're okay? been is right clear

in are network full of not we're because both number So at that freight building right? this right sides something not absolute adding time. I we know on we that to pricing going know can precise it you you number, $X say that transaction don't tell off would density want But cuff just now again, at charging we But right and now should disclosure we the look it wrong. -- fees, a you and What give say is we the the phase, at we're I have and don't forward.

as that's So say as right can now. I much

William Voss

that. we're we the that is amount in brokers from collecting network embedded the each of collecting fees from we're disclose do there's Yes. fees factors, and and what of What

Jordan Ghent

Yes.

talked follow-up the Perfect. long There's of you expense going on on in some And the just one about but provide maybe just that off pretty to relief. are kind clear to was near-term in dig Okay. expense, more commissions time the over want the letter, should I It then that be sales burning guidance. term. maybe

could on if have be you if So great. would -- that, have that any commentary you any

Unknown Executive

several the to quarters next we've look hard It's to. that past committed

us across quarters added be talent spent some though, expense a is foreseeable for high-level really we doing to within run lot we what's really committing now, now. are assembled. next anticipation we the to front quarters. dollars. technology for a There's the keeping added are we long roster at confident we few future. the We've for term. What can right current some that we We for are that and in of in that what several over people. has added that We've consulting last get the rate to future, months believe where is of been want lot right levels need and building foreseeable our We've do least our today we're We've the where of

we are that making, have the that confident able take disciplined to it's to we we're take that meet order we're on and we few commitment about be We on what between in that to be going will to who something do. quarters next -- for but

Aaron Graft

in a this tried -- a And top blow and to dot material we consulting matter a on and have This delayed going create every that We T, bit to as follow that to right? expense relationships We in the of up enough every is And know of it way on banking there quarter, little we've puts but was system. could that. quarter. had just are the to wanted I that we and didn't vagary our could drag. watched it a own, that, have every service cross takes go

important back North think to remind not question, to from the want -- trying right? I'm I you of just here, away but the Stars I it's

the talking about do we to right? a Like So to got right load that as billion X at pay, go attached done. is $XX now, Think all We're a want that's to things we and -- million get $X the all to lot service, factoring opportunity. revenue network do about it, things. I think a includes which about

North The that's There's shipper second But Star, we things. thing ton there's there. market. of getting don't do. There's other there, that XX% we and things right, gets density, us is -- getting LTL, truckload of There's output, to an to that's a that of want a XX%. a to stop

needs And currently deliver want to to given negative to the to we've XX% our EBITDA goal We've will margin. And business be which don't But know term, XX%, obviously, XX% network business, question long We above improve get to exactly operating EBITDA this it an this XX%. this got XX%. when interim then is and -- is segment, a hit. that margin. lastly, of Payments at ties to at for we

So in over $X a Like home that's run. and that's brokerage truckload revenue, billion margin, in after. XX% density XX% a we're going what

the new actors, are validations, for in come stand Robinson validations thousands Because mean party off. right, the we I those of are trusted carriers But live. You the on get commissions Why? to when the people's we that checking We what need to the criminals, between account and are fraudsters That's good account handle backfilled. going short do term, burn right? sales to go we do. goes money. do

puts Like but do sales are there commissions off, yes, on things so fall right? certain we to takes, deliver promises. have also network to and And our

approaching what X%, again investor everything think margin North And bank you a funds, those kind about cycle. about run low here, Payments you're does Obviously, talking those That's would to invite seen we scalability lost. ROA we I can deliver very right? to the keeping a of right? right? You've you that deliver just consider you're in a our and else the a with Stars. the in efficiency and business, cost things bank if that efficient want business But what I same. factoring of normal you an the Like be don't and and if

that's X everything pursuing. what that we're goal revenue, we're a all -- about, margin, density things As And institution. the that that mind. in we earning and that's ROE you to the you like those I put But together, the do with high and talked begins that's the EBITDA

Operator

Goetsch Harold B. from from comes question Riley. next Our

Harold Goetsch

even a a back be at And probably down the it's factoring My -- XXs in if control But don't stack, invoice to would depression price my that It's I you to know remove down uncontrollable. on question XX%. is pricing, in perspective high freight it's That X-year business. if like volume. industry, the I you of it's over volume. effects look downturn the playbook your have for I get wanted

is I the a stuff Beverage. lot over that And know Food and goes of road

part what's go and get house waste to to had comes my of out, week for in bin shipped what a my to a So every and store. big -- that's that

or down? see just us where give before? is Or Like inventories across than third difficult. it's having it are perspective I us really about of of inventories can't as the this. because low that that you you wholesale country, can can go, just like on a been So a your what as seems we ever year pretty could are imagine retail thoughts leaner they give

Unknown Executive

still Well, first marketplace The in we the and swing spot spread I'll interesting contract rates large between what Hal. of is the take a see that, fairly there's thing about rates.

that what's but that that's not market, stabilization to that carriers I on not well are look only one -- up. and carrier we're a quarter. some the within now. are small of those margins. that the of seeing below at lot a so quarters earlier. that . But bullets. see probably the look very what at hit when taking of and not the spot still Aaron watermark prop that their several We pulling starting small seeing We we second operating the We closely the our also are small carriers know we obviously cycle, quarter seen we rate of majority most see carriers, of is mean, watch thing is sustainable. And duration that are We've you cost segment great to which I referred was think the lowest

one bright with watch amount zero closely so and very that of in on to for spot market. we in average fuel invoice kind us correlation fuel specifically and the And as spot

a Why invoice lockstep with that's power. is level important moving of in amount pricing is if there's average fuel, then

that now, up if see fuel haven't there's that We see fuel meaning we up, to a goes see about years. invoices we go last go starting fuel in down, -- invoice or for lag. We're amount week lockstep, that If average X down the average consistently goes seen goes down.

really is a And on having so big fuel that. impact

duration, almost duration look the the I at So cycle. of up matches the it

about seen of head good the I We're better we're are it fourth not this We're crossed, think cycles, 'XX, those XXXX, And if But as -- 'XX, we quarter the say end that. but are I the quarter the before we've quite at toes at looking prepared historically all is are not we're just saw that is as -- XXXX, end not And I'm into ahead. you tail times, quarter. pastures up to cycle. we're we're at the fakes look of previous lasted yet. long one and cycles there. the done, first crossed, enough green there But not think fingers seeing

Operator

from Sandler. comes question next from Piper Schiraldi Our Frank

Frank Schiraldi

sort just in wondered, Just of what's decent EBITDA that of to of past on if in of million put the at give -- it talked some you'd thresholds, that Payments wondering revenue Aaron, with the the mentioned that you that target think able network. target? this be some guardrails Is around $XXX place -- a of XXXX to margin. end XX% sort sort point. the of timing the you Do about we've I'm the

to place us. bit you that if a try for curious could Just

Aaron Graft

that to at I that Brad revenue have tackle would [indiscernible]. to everything $XXX Voss of perfect me. be at is over to December here, go don't absolutely million think ready time. XXXX, XX,

I underwriting don't And put -- I then. if so us, I not would were think it

exactly XXXX, haven't done certainly conviction does. every because just So is the it into It's don't not going can't It objection. overcomes right? midway through XXXX? I before I that never I density think transportation. at sure. it Is firm believe, but have been know be I'm before, -- lumpy, in I been what's done absolute hasn't to done predict this I I it least or

paid you're going that so inflection And coming and last to point an like TriumphPay hit is XXX,XXX carriers we going are inflection where to mean point, to I on what's happen -- density, quarter.

any more many carriers don't quarter that is coming. on paid. inflection happens, network look last monetization, to if pretty business follows were I active been density rapidly. point you that have I other know the that the think Once there at Like

and Well, that lot don't that's the of between XXXX. XXXX? of Okay. a is I end know growth now

go know we mean it look, density. our we're we to I is whole said do focused because revenue Is hope now double lot more that. got XXXX? we I after I more a rate got so, where to So on

can't put linear freight were numbers can't specificity enough I'd state I -- but our if the well don't that. the not you to I business or of -- enough, it into that is have me, beyond, give beyond So I XXXX predict and

Frank Schiraldi

know decision then kind right. per I $X just of on think All yearly of made. you transaction a you talking monetization. Fair a gets or yearly about. to guys network factors have on that -- And talked basis, that enough. is I Obviously, the And Okay. way -- kind monetizing significant about speaking that's a

when got to C.H. we the to your that are win. confident you be you? can in a don't end. know is recession and going looking XXXX going year comfort another -- Robinson, that What is year get $X.XX What's monetizing you which factors huge obviously How the where is it this given how that are freight there? We are per. Is thoughts So still confident the back whatever your good? fully start pushed that maybe really where is just Is updated recession? level

Aaron Graft

is own our business, can have factoring at our the business, we volumes own can test be hard to of the look so it's benefit predict which we in XX% happens mean -- And to I right? -- market. we

XX, serve other, a And by opportunities on us, that factoring will and show think will top this I the to you a to to industry got using company audit, and X show the a We in small need XX just XX factoring the fair, then to scheduled one the will come. who because us volume they who And factoring there. of volume that companies what's we was mean the volume for audit XX bring the the some do that, and truckers right? us both. was some we XXX is . Like we of of there's you I brokers frankly, with for every contract the discussion for there's the gain payments, fairly. system, lot negotiation have signed, about If super to when payments, we And all network do of it. So them and do way. them some the uses someone's is for of can't and in for use and want are companies X those well top discussion X, of We the top top our of needs using treat that well who work. we for

of We industry. it. nobody do aren't equipped. need We all don't want -- a robust can you Like to. That's

spending So context I and to of adjustments like we it value invoice we we doing office ultimately to delivered. am very it. as a see lowering reflect the density certain how Sure. we the green shoots. Will an that the happen can on said, are the we broader pricing in be right? will taking do $X? use done with who's want the predict, And to into helps can to factoring market? Sure. show down service, come but way? now If to the things the all back them comes mix. we And all and the the a way way But and and tariffs West Coast Can that that show Like are For who bunch and factoring Trump elected show help go the gets market. them them in there's with a these the those coming of will company we can't freight it at it all $XX

can on it show like done. take not it's it We -- to asking is we're -- I mean them that faith literally way the them we

value we to customers. not effect those So view very fans, that them. but And be creating just We for long we a we commensurate only to on expect paid want that, for for again, take relationships. expect paid be to are that we the

Frank Schiraldi

Got you. last in sure. the one. question, may could not I -- But And it be I'm quick one looks like just I sneak if

that shaker that XX% and kind about. out election? need you less that the looking presidency out with Trump near in the maybe mover recession could be the #X freight the see industry and it of and us brought you on of capacity have terms You of reduced think that get Aaron, term, thing Would to #X up, boost Is freight the guys by talked to of you potential in the that do the that tariffs. higher

Aaron Graft

be on thing. quite is I So they right? of is Trump if is or day, right? don't going would it the headed going whoever know mini to at stump -- speeches, think. the President to much economy does, long-term I have as tonnage don't as President a in tonnage a end the it's It's their not Biden claim capacity. or that about fix, and effect President, to like Like it's

like Mexico, happening it happening a up think more opportunity. up for But a it's spike. near-term that's the West and a in Coast, even China course, of in spot bunches, sort trucking. Of short-term hurricane on happens great now, like in -- it's that's the if shows which that right That's is if creates showing we manufacturing

term, there still believe Long is too I capacity. much

And to happy change paid capacity moved in to doesn't much and my be long-term they upside. too get are want for I participate and hard the these in We're have work $X this that to have $X so we thesis freight a to is that happy carriers obligations, It and our country. them we mile because people the for win. fixed still

normalize still And or slowly, happens it we so there. to it need whether whether quickly happens

Operator

are there Thank this And further no at questions time. you.

Aaron Graft

your playing and careful of you us. Pickleball. for Thank all rest great a have joining Hope you be summer

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