Earnings call transcript Q4 2022

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Operator

Greetings and welcome to the Home Point Capital Fourth Quarter 2022 Financial Results Call. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Lesley Alli. Please go ahead.

Lesley Alli

Thank you, operator. fourth fiscal Point’s call. XXXX Home to quarter year and earnings Welcome

me Newman, Elbaum, and Willie morning Chief and Officer. Joining are Officer; President this Chief Executive Financial Mark

slide we section Events the Home website. referring prepared in Relations of will Investor our is available remarks, to During a presentation, Point which the be

SEC to do call, company’s performance company’s to to events future or business. cause report Please Point’s These results available discussing refer I’d this which Before this maybe management to We XX-K, the non-GAAP may guarantee we like filed measures believes on begin, is the include actual of XXXX, year-end the not the call Point’s are filings, most in on these nearest Form Home December materially financial recent Home in differ reconciled you, GAAP are could figures annual statements. for remind the forward-looking including earnings on statements, certain non-GAAP which the for which which measures factors relevant website. performance. release, from assessing XX,

turn call Now, to President the Executive like over Newman, to and I’d Chief Willie Officer.

Willie Newman

and good morning, everyone. Leslie, Thanks,

ultimately XXXX, well ourselves the history Mark supporting environment, the results prepared to challenging as my growth year for long-term sustainability, will going one to all-time XXXX call as Point low transactions marked This position higher has discuss XXXX. most our our quarter continued The details and conditions an first We'll After our was Home in more this all on some was a fourth year as banking. come doubt steps significant for the refinance to to in into and has incredibly by for return we of it, challenges about of key and seasonality just overcapacity, quarter resulted as housing the the including market our profitability interest as multiple at provide presented into insight in participants. lows, in areas your navigate rates, name well and originations. the few. year With focus During full challenging mortgage supply, questions. initial XXXX. for years No XXXX. environment, have I'm that, XXXX. mortgage take I’ll open as discuss mortgage back remarks, which These then also to extreme taken into of headwinds,

the point quarter and news through quarter, As into again. the summer. second of as challenging upwards versus The we first the low slope navigate XX% seasonal of purchase the The and in propelled increase At increase XXXX should organization Home projects cycle. start be resetting curve the sustainably such, spring as move current by is to will in MBA XXXX both Point, the good improve, origination quarter origination conditions likely we the that first home the seasonality volume XXXX spent in in a environment, to activity. current grow a

position. strong to Our has build and priority been liquidity a top maintain

sold We have non-core businesses divested assets. and non-core

and providers, have access maintained ample relationships leverage strong additional have our to We with liquidity.

we've portfolio. margin our in to addition strong historically rebalanced over our focus the cashflow performance volume, on leverage best servicing operating In to our

X%, historic are X%. of historically of by high is strong credit factors, our historical of levels by dynamic a is This change of part be cashflow XXXX. performance performance, our which To and expect in floor historically an you strong prepayments, half of and running is driven low XXXX, position driven quarter operationally positive, from portfolio. servicing the the large give the is servicing-related prepayments second the on we our earnings in In deposits. XXXX our historically historically to idea at which shift three in in This level massive cashflow scope,

input Our profitability XXXX. is a servicing to a towards book critical in path

have force of size reduction early our made including organization, reduce XXXX. an extremely in additional the to in We also decisions difficult

all cost of profitability on we fixed smaller since profile Including to dramatically the annualized taken our an $XXX other is Our our actions XXXX, by another path have primary reduced driver start over million. expense XXXX. during of base basis back

more expanded the size have efforts our objective also We operational having our size of balance it current the reduce of sheet, and to our overall scope. with of be reflective

wholesale enhance data finally origination's retail by beyond. curve select the first more opportunity operational performance. we prepared sales partnership these plan and All created to asset which in in loan seasonality improve all lender our a as the market, will growth The sustainable indicates challenging half XXXX, After the upward. for this work, through ramps the we saw of wholesale of complete migration broker systemic both are in During efforts, provides channel largely and benefits we our by even greatest liquidity hard as obtainable growth originators for the the are that XXXX increased XXXX. apparent

the all are all We time. wholesale

So, we be XXXX, to half to what's quarter of operationally cashflow We positive and expect the of in in be profitable bottom the second XXXX. operationally line? expect second starting the

like the call over to turn to I'd Mark. that, With

Mark Elbaum

results. best return Thanks going my a presentation we've XXXX. company We'll discussion steps the Willie, in position growth prepared be the financial We've regarding happy and you remarks. have answer to to the our included taken for following good period-over-period everyone. and to any our earnings questions morning, our results financial on to release, I'm standard in focus

position, liquidity maintaining and reduction earnings for cashflow and December profile. the and on a and Looking and XXXX, our delivered leverage results XX, ended back initiatives, improving year our expense efficiency primary we on effectively financial fourth at strong executing quarter three objectives,

quarter, Longbridge top asset we was in XXXX. In of assets our completed HPMAC fourth mentioned, the Willie priority vehicle. As management the liquidity in divestitures non-strategic and

foundation book. strong to approximately a million, of company available sold support a up resulted million billion our in of long-term actions We liquidity Ginnie our ending MSR $X in $XXX year for also Mae These QX, $XXX from growth.

strategically Ginnie and lines credit sell rights, increased continue more minimize warehouse of environment. Moving rate efficiently an to right-size costs in we forward, to operate interest associated our and will Mae servicing opportunistically

fourth reduce of the quarter-over-quarter, quarter in QX XXXX, restructuring, of excluding by quarterly quarter. in side, expense the XXXX, XX.X%. $XX.X $XX.X the of the charges XXXX to million impairment reduced we further QX third we goodwill and expenses expenses Comparing XX% of million On our by

headcount the we that As people in during resulted cost-cutting previously reported, to XXX. took XXXX, exiting reducing quarter measures approximately our countdown approximately of XXX fourth year-end

the XXXX, we facilities review reductions of in work reduced the additional and cost cost will for side, of quarter in together, of continues In headcount, current on actions half of contracts support an as organization. the savings Additional first result XXXX, million. to expense taken which, first the $XX the approximately size annualized further

positively Speaking to adjusted in our fourth XXXX, our servicing generating an earnings the in segment profile, improved margin cashflow trended quarter contribution period. of $XX.X of and earnings the million

servicing XX-plus far than average day less delinquencies portfolio record coupon resulting the in we is remain weighted QX. which on X.XX% low in see X%, levels, to thus prepayment and Our continue

activity, increased As year. points in compared before attributable XX margins of Willie of the $X.X to quarter giving billion, and previous quarter to XX XXXX. over Consequently, fourth XX total we XXXX, full in quarter, points to earlier, total sale volume. the quarter markets to billion for on fourth the capital produced we origination the and basis basis the the margins in effect fourth volume impact other basis Gain points in prioritized of channels strategically mentioned and $XX.X volume of

XXXX Reiterating Willie's forward able of on strategic as production and XXXX, execution, inventory and million The our them to a for levels, for liquidity reduction, based repurchase our the related charges growth return and market midst are to hit on stronger the do comments so sale levels, year. blocks lower anticipate based this margin in cost million organization begin the steps align production and were other as we of and is historical $XX.X the a declining to we for spreads, provision $X.X more took held declined action performance loss reserves. current capital continued to on plan to production a improvement, necessary in market financial mark Reserves expect our even We building to proactive on sale from of in objectives result that in outside on agency pressures. QX, stable cashflow XXXX. outlook, view enhancement, to in

That concludes this prepared morning. remarks our for

now are questions. call the turn to ready to We back Operator. take your the to operator

Operator

question Our Instructions] first Please with [Operator Credit from comes Doug Suisse. go you. Thank Harter ahead.

Doug Harter

Can Thanks. what off you environment scenario? breakeven, guess, just would Willie, it on versus quarter? would about I what in expect would how you your expect, was comment that that is you talk that volumes kind cashflow second kind cashflow in volumes and the of trade you of of type positive in cashflow, it, cashflow

Willie Newman

Doug. Sure,

certain it a on So, of toggle. talked to little about, quarter. volume yes, approximates get the in I margin we It and of trying to kind based happening into Mark had what market, we fourth more bit fixing level. are the kind we're out going let of in We're a as what's mean,

that. the I think, volumes we than would have at on I quarter quarter, But So, Mark, in there. will in fourth from think we were an be this the they and numbers lower expect first specific increase point, don't

Mark Elbaum

But and not forward lower are level. of off going of outweigh level earnings would be that pretty point, servicing giving, at guidance. that that the high the the yes, to Doug, portfolio, We're production be

And production, consequently, to we it's we positivity. that's lead than still going quarter burns get it be a expense second cash. that think that lot in the baked quarter, higher low. make will to going by we to Couple While production that second with quarter relatively moves reduction will the to the fully cashflow less be time be first

Doug Harter

just near-term the that bit environment, the quarter? from you competitive Got little far in some one Are competitive so pullback - it seeing pressures. it. the first on of environment, And like seems in a of margin the

Willie Newman

have We are we more - recently.

loosened think started and bit. the little up I tight pretty kind a of So, quarter it's off

bit So, we're more to see more a inflows. little going because we're in fixing margin,

we And in in saw so, flows and increased have certainly March February. January what over our

Doug Harter

Okay. you. Thank

Operator

go of question next comes ahead. from Please with Our Bhatia Bank Mihir America.

Mihir Bhatia

headwind taking to on the Hi. trying sale gain to basis sale, thank question. on my bridge you with just Good the I wanted the between gain and channel start XX reported gap the morning, for and points in margin.

you how briefly, on about rectify, happening Why impact there? been has mentioned but is to talked and if does take you what in the XXXX, color provide more little you it exactly challenging so You timing will? bit it can long a

Mark Elbaum

Yes, sure.

a problem. based I have So, is, that that is we And what a on circa take mean in to I the provisions and reserves past by described the we for we the to lag. continue activity think XX-month what repurchase as denominator need

million a but more. lot originating much, exactly you more volumes ago, or if how we're - our well, today, maybe $XX were months XX than look substantially So, we I forget originating at

GAAP way for the so, I margins quarter And of period billion works, reserves the And those was production, we're taking. current this locks. which fallout on look of are total particular $X.X at because based adjusted about

look that into in the million. of provisions see quarter, So, third took if the in we about you'll you other $XX details, activity

to it puts I'm by quarter, down number million. This about a lot topline on that But denominator, such that dividing number. was it small pressure because a $X.X of

that's to of The normalize what's going over time. that that on. reality expect I is So, it

more to you're to of start seasonality reverse to replicate XXXX, itself current I that we that looking itself as fact, should If in a production. starts even because part production through could more at see tail grow come of second by as level into market. as it out just start the a And lag, - normalized XX-month closely our normalize

Willie Newman

as a Right. to converge second guess normalized we volume. comfort half, of level, profitable that's I be the is us those the degree the expect operationally it in gives that to we’ll to that normal more things And relates new what greater

Mihir Bhatia

that's other to the profitable it. Doug’s it's XQ more just or back just savings be actions of I lines bit it you right I cost Got now more get are and little stuff side? on And then still then wait that, now think feel in a cost there? taken volumes the you like like, from cost Or gets the on a ’XX, cashflow to think you side, is cost operationally a and back now positive beyond - there's but you the actions? do you I guess bit, already come about XH as taken of perspective, like like like sizing do the just headcount how have point it of going to you question in been just little sounded like have what are a all

Willie Newman

Yes. this don't the At I done in cost ever think point with cycle, we're side. the

I to we're it's than structure say the we're we've that very on, it is, significant at we've scope it smaller there's it we're taken, to how everything wholly actions - So, we're et at and still certainly in that consistently. organization, though variances profitability, but would we'll maybe continue What But unforeseen the to on order be dependent going to And on going to not us likely cushion we're that would in on supports previously. bit done that gives be operational I we're are spending case looking get a there, little very this focused market be getting in point. - like focus the say of staffed money to what cetera.

Mihir Bhatia

you my questions. it. taking Got for Thank

Operator

Our ahead. next go question Rick Shane comes with from JPMorgan. Please

Rick Shane

questions. taking question my Thanks, for or everybody,

‘XX, look was anticipate? or there significant the obviously, decline fourth pick thing, comp in that that the the as First towards rate function run the we in I'm one we a of volumes quarter the up, variable should is expense. there big as is curious, factors

Mark Elbaum

Yes.

So, here's Rick. I think of it, would how

If quarter, and quarter, in will you landed that mentioned the actions the circa that the in $XX million we benefit on number, actions additional in the basis. I we take salary reduction an at result of took in look where had call fourth fourth a we quarter and annualized first on took and

second figure quarter. to would So, that's the into time by get then, That $XX get XX load quarter. should add basis-point baked the roughly a variable million maybe production. I we a And fully

your probably salary And be decent line. you So, points for forecast it'll volume basis that benefits is, your to is on whatever and production way XX that. a

Rick Shane

it. Got

So, just about That - to fourth in quarter and it, were expenses the $XX when million. annualizes Mark, so think we total million. to $XXX

basis volume activity. cost that of there's XX from $XX points saying You're million cuts of then there, Is runway? variable the the add

Mark Elbaum

Let's be careful with that.

XX, deduct that think at and now I'm going from it billion assume model a I And $X.X points quarterly, Already we're or that, So, of So, XX, X.X attach to XX okay? it. that the in XX. If how circa that to let's and XX points cost your XX, variance. on because call can that basis just basis takes at if we're that's go and we to, funded, variable plus XX take minus okay? of you us

Rick Shane

Got it.

Okay. walking through Very for you helpful. Thank me that.

you start reduction and cut your in I other could The revised XX% of think forward? both to to need the obviously substantial recapture you reinvest have, a on focus as have share, the this, a conceded have on going year-over-year what's question will of will in and is, of on cost that with structure, Or market on be part share Will cost the business be in half that in you market to share? you basis, in some down probably of market? regaining that to basis. going you come margin, terms quarter-over-quarter market a because Do you position share order in naturally

Willie Newman

Yes. Hey, Rick, Willie. it’s

activities referenced. regain our the some able focused been a standpoint. the will that share business. that you market been the We've very help preserve to So, also We've of of specific on significant from we majority reinvesting been have sales in coverage us

get will really market - so, growth in that we'll start take some the the curve, - that market natural result And share combination but the back the conceded. from think of seasonality market we that we've to share from we'll additionally,

Rick Shane

it. Got

over there's that hard been I it's I you out year. decisions you, guys, hard interesting a it see acknowledge, just work Thank be and next want know where going how a guys. Hey, are, lot and the to to of of Okay. get to lot plays to

Operator

ahead. with question Please next Our Kevin Barker comes Sandler. Piper go from

Kevin Barker

Great, thank you.

and you of up put you up there and warrants you of you then you the today? Can losses just throughout to And of place rates rates? in follow other XXXX reps due amount impacting level - provisions interest the significant have on losses, Just us give reps outline higher can a taken higher were warrants? for because to have also, reserves

Mark Elbaum

Yes.

we to XXXX, able are XXXX. answer the mid-XXs, trade in and the circa our scratch - trading we’re XX XXs. started is we Kevin, yes. low the context, where started we the where time that around inventory market’s So, got now, We By dent is we to were

lot we've taken, inventory had We scratch a mark, to down, So, a having repurchases. that's to of future just on the also and dent not of source the losses potential is that only severity reserves the increase the but that. for

So, that was of of cause a the losses. the lot

will, certainly we're recover. to market the Now, if XXs. the up, not good news, And closer you that to that to starting see we're starting numbers see to mid-XXs that high are if is bottom

feel at So, that's better. trending least we that

there's credit risk a for combination demand fair tightening, I spreads of paper. of a and think the that's amount

debt defects. be performing. It to scratch dock tends Our have inventory tends and to

loan if pretty nice buy yielding think you So, that on that's at you about asset. dollar, less a than can the a performing $X.XX

seeing And quarters, in a I the a requests dent lot and to starting that stabilization well. previous provisions number a we’re two, The agencies quite fourth one, taken. working so, of that. through up took that's number are and our that's additional in And that bit see of in as we're scratch that they with we're less what than quarter inventory. their part audits that in repurchase getting But way been terms the the were mentioned. the source we had we've The losses caught because, of

we're to that's start we current why to as move see relative I relationship going production. reason to So, that that through have to XXXX, normalize believe

Willie Newman

I the Yes, answered … think we

Mark Elbaum

repurchases that's balance are on million about was reserves future $XX and not balance yet our in reserves, the sheet. And against that potential

Willie Newman

Yes.

the high, of but The are happening, lower getting gap we're kind the floating catching is level narrowing of repurchases, are rates is the that's production. our only is mentioned, Mark catching Kevin, also rate up that other of because kind for lag of to obviously thing the that up production, of rates we it's lag of the lower level not higher to kind - because

So, a or what's have you - three trends to positive two to in narrow been happening. kind of of start kind

Kevin Barker

And back defects? us then loans for agencies can have the look back far you any could that may how remind

Mark Elbaum

back as long as Kevin. look could years, They three

Kevin Barker

Okay. some But have right, try where they or beginning, typically, review the to upfront like review to? in - an

Kevin Barker

goes try they to can. could certainly loans typically different and they as a be buy if do the it that, they at back. upfront the and default, performing loan's they Post with look a that But are to their production, review issue behind. interest it's If back. into review that in in of much fresher and as and it not mean, happens will, might they buy earlier although loan it's to if you really find pool, I at to have us try point the most

And so, roughly. one this we do lag, year have

Willie Newman

Yes, feel good from performance, which our reserve why that's with we about we're again, where servicing standpoint. at a

Kevin Barker

Great.

the in provision my that so, fourth in of on $X.X would margin? million points math, And roughly XX what, the imply was, quarter billion fourth on the by basis production, $X.X headwind which quarter of

Mark Elbaum

if it. much on a the works. the be does, Except to described larger denominator, way And X.X math applied vintage were is to that we just would it you that yes. works a It way not way the basis, math do but the the that's

Kevin Barker

Okay.

of not is in what basis we persistently I'm that on would volatile at or right on on so, average producing you is sale now, gain And that what the trying were, amount a saw? normalized in increasing provision? movement to the I So, given when what like points say, like, be rates gain less would sale XXXX you recorded was hit get

Mark Elbaum

understand your Yes, question. I

three that rep for XXXX, that aside two loan we we points. basis something have put warrant So, to was originate, on every and circa number to In losses. potential

seven that points more that and basis like loan looks new Now, six we on up. put between every number

Willie Newman

normalized those I'd And is Yes. somewhere level two between in numbers. say

Mark Elbaum

rates to The going have note converge. a for would it's number rates, probably agree. scratch higher rates to because because so your dents is current and and to now are I reason not I XXs providing going persist would we're at severity around for investor much going agree. that's required and I'm low

Willie Newman

Right.

Kevin Barker

Okay.

benign a we should in environment, interest rate absolute So, see margins?

Mark Elbaum

Yes. context. X-ish the in say would I

Kevin Barker

Okay. right. Thank my taking questions. you All for

Operator

question go from JMP comes DeLaney Steven next Please Securities. Our with ahead.

Steven DeLaney

the Willie, was morning, thing, to else. to on and the did I sale. Look, all on - good move I on the the Thanks. good Mark, on overall. kind you've same and something so congrats was a going gain going operational on progress I'll job to of expenses made Kevin hit

general credit GSEs, the targeted bit does the MSR but service, due your that to into sticking operating moving to Is from why You've higher Maes that as a you're trying reduce. product Ginnie as you're that away factor primarily to in with big a come costs just Ginnie? or

Willie Newman

Yes. Hey, Willie. Steve, it's

not provider, advances we're actually whether to and anything that experience, tends servicing some it's it's servicing my non-performing, actually the servicing especially if that say there So, with as to servicing, just Ginnie when and for servicing. Mae you Ginnie our removed product associated you're holding the yourself, you costs one sell is in you're the action, the the you say it's both. hidden be may not with step from easily bad recognize I'd this about when take not the that dings of

create sold led point liquidity our Ginnie. so, of to you sense performance just and the previously, that, significant and and it the to our where us fact servicing made that, standpoint, we've know, return from sell us a make more Ginnie to the Mae a And to for of just part all as predictive

Steven DeLaney

it. That sense. makes Got

$XX the over book? for outlook the what’s looking or of Obviously, UPB $X the the you your quarter. just and of pace MSR really Now, kind be XXXX your do saw shrinkage a expect slowed. in of - smaller the and size reached balance it the stabilization fourth to have year-end, drop or million of sort flat, you see point, would - for your has about you of Where out than you UPB servicing is servicing billion total

Mark Elbaum

that in be to going I It's think. neighborhood,

be us - I substantial. So and we're cycle far, to a our able to speeds bit through the prepaids little of are than move the it, get But replenishing expect as level extraordinarily to is we amount slow, too seasonality faster would but period. the not out replenish but which the so

I think XX-ish.

to going way. by are the We continue to Ginnie, sell

a So, negative that the on to we up for teed a that's be Ginnie And have second on quarter. sale going number. closing

you well. as coming in that's think being of So, can But XX high that XXs, it area.

Steven DeLaney

Willie. any is one I expectation realize for like in the where helpful. premature. week, your you investors it Mark. that's benchmarks, long realistic or with point this and of Thanks, decision say, if let's quick are was reinstatement stability like But range dividend? final timeframe that - this have anything of conversations to think thing, there the but And $X.XX when next guess should whatever board, made me. dividend, I in do market, the think That's That's planning, I'm past what cash can eliminate to thinking the possible a of XXXX, is, accomplishment, Thanks. any - and of is we the board, and smaller

Willie Newman

thanks no, Steve. Yes,

positive. then is, which of for cashflow stabilize the us, a we and first, let's And time, the cashflow, get alternatives. earnings So, first positive, for of we'll period kind after I things other consider get let's think that do

secondly on, our I business this because sure think would've then is And making very the we we to business a pay are of creating level, liquidity, would down from debt there is some to suffer significant at low focus supported, the standpoint. shocks before have. right that now, primary we which is be one,

Steven DeLaney

both you Thank Got comments. your it. the for debt. can understand I

Operator

instructions]. [Operator

go Doug Our from comes next Credit Harter Suisse. with ahead. Please question

Doug Harter

Thanks.

kind you your of on down order about return return what of about positivity? as are paying operating down around comment debt, liquidity cashflow debt? using pay how that do cashflow kind of kind Following to Just to that last to in thoughts you think your positive, using up

Willie Newman

Yes.

primary now line and is with right as paying where curve our our it it the debt, lot being down in short Doug, MSR gotten more So, especially on was our mentioned, is, previously. rates than term I based a expensive that's focus really is

Mark really where in sales, also we're So, position asset mentioned. and have as we're because generating additional that we cash,

make be meaningful quarters. to the to a able that we're next So, reduction in couple going over line of

So, of that area will be focus. our

Doug Harter

meaningful to think guess trades unsecured just paying able at equity create a lines some a it you MSR at by being versus the debt, And then about I how do discount? which and obviously the down discount value

Willie Newman

first Yes, well. point. want will that Again, certainly as to to get operationally we we consider cashflow-positive that

based debt. So, want that in is the something on that cash longer-term too be to tenor don't we on generating premature the we're into that committing

certainly consider. but we at will So, something that we've looked it's and

Doug Harter

And business? of it. and me, staying do selling the long-term size smaller just business, alternatives for possibly how kind of of Got you then kind independent lastly considering strategic kind about just versus the staying of given think the

Willie Newman

have Well, I are think, you of footprint. to what's smaller we kind the market, a be and cognizant of happening in

also we're to. have We of have lots and access the that liquidity process of in generating

is an where believe to So, either in direction, a it make of out environment seeing that. what we’re having looking we do consolidate, have our we and eyes might sense. kind of open but and things about And kind being public will company, dialogue open we’re

Doug Harter

you. Okay. Thank

Operator

Willie There turn floor comments. Please ahead. go are time. the to would I like no questions further Newman at to this for over closing back

Willie Newman

thanks. Yes,

interest Home the footprint, in intelligence appreciate do Point. we Mark to want of doing sometimes couple weeks. smaller all, the when much your the but and how I of really time time wonder With the came before having questions interest first appreciate the were organization we have, questions growing the So, we and sign were I organization everybody we rapidly, and of company same in a called little business thing at and IPO. into because the knows And this Mark questions. the leaving recognize the we’ll very do an off, a at our Mark's

what the we to we so, be us and who of in And leaders to public. had of were same the he really doing, had one time learn about kind taking he at were

faced the he's we're he opportunity. over experienced a was both extremely and and looking growth way months, and with challenging did at things he And So, navigate now, market last XX we've in again, that the then where those us well. helped through

you'll and in always Point. you to want So, best a the thank Mark, be of wish friend all endeavors, future Home you, your

for So, and your everybody, interest. thanks, again

Operator

concludes today's teleconference. This

participation. You for this at may your Thank time. lines you your disconnect

Home Point Capital (HMPT) 9 Mar 232022 Q4 Earnings call transcript