STAA - Earnings call transcript Q4 2024

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Operator

Greetings, and welcome to the STAAR Surgical Fourth Quarter and Fiscal 2024 Earnings Webcast.

As a reminder, this event is being recorded today, Tuesday, February 11, 2025. [Operator Instructions]

I would now like to introduce your host, Brian Moore, Vice President of Investor Relations with STAAR Surgical.

Brian Moore

Thank you, moderator. thank results joining and for ended XX, and the to fiscal everyone, December financial company's the XXXX. afternoon, you us for discuss year Good fourth quarter CEO; Chair the Frinzi, Financial Tom are Williams, Chief speakers Board Today's and and Patrick Officer. of our of and quarter just release was fiscal X:XX p.m. press results issued fourth The year after Time. Eastern

We have Investor earnings section STAAR's of today's Relations investors.staar.com. earnings and posted release copies website of the presentation at to

filings Except by STAAR these intend to as those statements. actual expressed will this expectations, forward-looking no company begin, forward-looking are described to cause the public materially harbor law, subject call let important includes remarks remind and comments or update historical of and with risks by in reflect as of me caution forward-looking forward-looking obligation during and judgment that statements. include numerous required the This to future with to projections, a could press statement. as you that and does is and the of call prospects. we We risks as not plans, statement based statements well STAAR's company's uncertainties The Before such not conference that assumes on these These statements about you are release safe results associated are implied this statements or today's and fact quickly in events to periodic analysis outcomes statement differ SEC. from actual is the uncertainties that date do beliefs statement any a so. forward-looking the

we per measures, adjusted call share. this EBITDA and and release, discuss non-GAAP certain financial EBITDA on including addition, adjusted in the In press

GAAP currency. sales Definitions release. data are in to We also in today's provide press included reconciliations and constant

relevant all today's on basis a on year-over-year specified, will versus unless brevity, call be period. otherwise the For comparisons

Instructions] analysts. Following to webcast questions our publishing will we remarks, from prepared [Operator open the

means be press disclosures a Accordingly, Investor information website website public our with to to website obligations Such the our Finally, investors for complying on we disclosure our of SEC our monitor will conference and nonpublic included disclosing following addition calls filings section. should in FD. releases, and intend investor our as and use Relations webcast. in material Regulation under

with Tom to And now Tom? that, would like the turn over I presentation to Frinzi.

Thomas G. Frinzi

Thank you, Brian, good and everyone. afternoon,

we quarter wanted started, today's I Before XX. for to slowdown had webcast than rather findings to and everyone XXXX February results and quarter of work We I the as the close notice. joining But fourth important get for we on through and China later. for felt XXXX, thank was originally year-end communicate scheduled more learned process short the fiscal our we results it economic with investors XXXX our impact outlook about on and our for sooner

year-end complete results, We all. XX, are February not expect and before our audit and or you Form share to want the to but did wait still to file on to with our working perspectives outlook XX-K we

to call our before overview initiatives open details. the performance we the provide to outlook I'll our and performance begin then additional our and will against before to line some Patrick an questions. growth of progress turning comments final make discuss your brief with financial I

acute China quarter. net were reported weak For fiscal that by $XXX conditions impacted fourth XXXX, macroeconomic in we sales the approximately million, particularly which negatively of were

and respectively. generated headwinds, fiscal XX% quarter fourth our gains is ICL sentiment overshadowed XXXX share the exposure by levels. Despite growth sales consumer outside $XXX at in China, heavy China, of these are in STAAR continued where spending XXXX, of and of million unprecedented low market which remain Our and to XX%

work control. strategic priorities This solid execution growth without against within I our STAAR's not colleagues our minus STAAR and thank team, tireless been the from the X for their would above. EVO reflects investments our growth of want correction refractive global on diopters ICL all double-digit drive China few choice returns have contributions and growth outside vital sales to at for the our and levers vision possible of to position continued and as

in It's million China environment quarter well-documented including the million, for the In down in quarter, for the and and been ICL significant STAAR. $XXX in for companies business our fourth difficult We fiscal who a XXXX. year full XX% and sales were in macroeconomic do $X.X China, year, decline full a saw for fourth sales China year-over-year.

that extending stated payment we did order we driven $XX.X as by terms shipped with order in distributor. release, in a one today's revenue. was for This not China a that was and recognize this into million December which one As press up ended result,

had we providing additional accounting be it to on a XXXX, our However, in his results in significant XXXX. remarks. expect fiscal impact revenue this recognize Patrick will and in details

negatively demand impacting It our is weak is consumer China ICLs. for confidence clear that in

cash products and pay purchase. a reminder, a are discretionary As our premium

So important consumer data us. for confidence point an is

Week mixed. been As confidence in down data Slide in presumably were the but summer, an over consumer China government cities on there have sales shown and sales October, the weak was very Shanghai then Retail retail by and major and uptick X, driven remains of stimulus. Golden Beijing

hit refractive earnings on had this that is October we procedures It China and trough our that of belief XX call, our were 'XX indeed a in QX rebounding. shared because

in uptick not major and distributors retail by rebound, in as sales was sales were negative we sustained turned our While and December. encouraged cities this November the

Given of demand. distributor distributors China, shipments in our we advance procedural sell our into model in bulk anticipated in

to Our on distributors, hospital their scheduled surgeries. turn, customers based sell-through in

end-user estimated product between on volumes, is track distributor hospital. the and a which procedural for the sell-through proxy the based movement data, we of As

how sell-through Golden our a steep August. To decline, spike Week. saw in April around and provide but for trended. we by September some moderated March. context rebound the up, it Then in saw followed In variability saw January is sell-through declines again February XXXX, then XXXX, in volumes then we significant the understand a in sell-through October was and through helpful to in

things Following volumes the ups this confidence short-lived in in November until China. in will We improves saw and continue in procedural worsened and December. downs we in believe recovery stabilizes consumer October, some volatility ultimately and

We sell-through highly to remain our to there. expect conditions correlated macroeconomic

and household predict has cannot when consumer will that money we China control the with consumer over economic improve, saving or Although China in been conditions confidence several data past significant shows increases the years. savings

improvement before, consumer in stated improves, seen have when China we our we As have sales. rapid confidence

saw For continue current to XX% weakness economy market in the rebound. will the COVID-XX in our plus sell-through increase the XXXX lockdown the We overall and is China believe China and distributors the following as in monthly China example, in of first quarter transitory we a refractive reopened.

pleased we China, regions. As we monitor continue the our challenging other with demand environment across performance our to closely in are

ICL Excluding the China, full generated up Americas, the we the for XX% fourth year. year. resilient growth were for in ICL XX% sales fiscal the a In XX% quarter the XX% of and in quarter sales fourth and

Our quarterly XX% and growth sales performance of XX%. unit of U.S. growth included

according XX% growth in and laser for We XX% this delivered the year declined as full procedures the declined overall third-party in data. to XXXX vision the quarter fourth correction U.S.

and we outpace to refractive in large United strategies refine U.S. Fast the States. XX market We Lane our as Highway the and margin commercial a execute against continue by

These Fast initiative that in XXXX. XX% generated reflect sales I Lane growth fiscal as these am of our customers particularly the working. patients development of and strategies application that commercial are pleased the compared progress providers clinical our support increased EVO significant professional show to with practice to solutions provide U.S., results ICL both and our and including XXXX the in education, value

of sales fiscal our East. the quarter in and ICL XXXX, primarily generated XX% and In the EMEA, European fourth X% by we growth Spain in markets, driven strength Middle distributor for

this in the the in We has of performance important with inflation face dynamic growth elevated which geopolitical are levels. backdrop region, pleased a and delivered

growth generated and for which India, by XXXX, clinic, In sales of generated lenses contributed fiscal in well XXXX. and to boosted ICL XXXX. performance for its China, Korea fiscal strong X,XXX XX% first APAC, we we first with fourth the excluding South in implanted Korea In XX% the year. quarter XX% ICL-only sales growth over South Japan our ICL

We rising levels. a continue large in income focus on to with this market invest regions with

sales revenue remains indexed for be China. geographically over heavily total to Therefore, will is business with to difficult grow yet rebounds. in company historic until at total STAAR's XX the countries, it China diverse rates

high fiscal outlook for represents end. a and at our sales, end excluding $XXX million X% We XX% to anticipate low of China, the million, $XXX XXXX. of at the Turning ICL growth which to range

range expect range. large a which China the to we acknowledge ICL million, $XXX sales of $XX in We is million

more now this will detail call turn discuss to over results. and with to Patrick financial I Patrick? in our outlook assumptions the

Patrick Williams

the more their fiscal here. our depend satisfied ranges our proxy of to we recognize me from will our on Allow volumes. low, If distributors' outlook sell-through will everyone. afternoon, be revenue selling in the as China a good and sales Tom, underlying inventory. amount for impacting demand existing to details XXXX some on distributors volumes from this remain you, variables procedural procedural ICL XXXX in provide The shown that Thank of

our recover, they demand And and more if product the us. overall looks us the As distributors forward-looking to strong which higher from gets procedural refractive the will market of product, even sustainable, volumes more range. purchase and end our purchase will

and minus flat down minus range growth refractive region refractive and assumes overall in is EMEA procedure for in APAC, excluding China. market Our growth procedures outlook our to Americas X% XX%

We in conditions XXXX. second confidence consumer believe China will half in the of and macroeconomic improve

and range to reach end stimulus packages increased impact intended whether Our high China anticipated the ability have in the leads high will season their XXXX summer of government the on to depend demand.

light demand have minimal to of first will are in address procedural for distributors half XXXX. of in is We year. China sell-through the or first the the product environment expected to currently We, in we country therefore, sales sufficient inventory the report anticipate there volumes the in that collaborating confirmed and half our ICL China meet levels elevated with of

approximately We $XX QX expect be and to each million global of net per quarter QX. sales for

the the to inventory to a would $XXX range our in-country China in As expect million. revenue second of half in China during $XX of first XXXX, XXXX half we million reduced of is rebound

underlying China at of outlook Our that our the be down higher year-over-year outlook. will and is end XX% in end at refractive of assumption up sales sales procedures overall year-over-year our the the lower XX%

potential any EVO+ does of Our in ASP ICL China benefit factor not outlook for in launch the range in from XXXX. China

anticipate be customers latest EVO+, and China lens market, China However, garner and that patients will to the entry new the our there a of a demand from should for ASP. in we higher version do which

not revenue provide timetable. us product If with approved, yet upside. EVO+ we expect it potential continue drive power, can incremental the to is pricing a While could midyear some

announced originally for company's year model outlook our Vision XXXX, on target no XX, achieve we the XXXX. to September and on sales expect Based fiscal longer XXXX operating

In earnings XX refer provided today's order XX shown full for results our to QX financial Please results XXXX are reconciliation have to we sufficient on and press presentation and in which year a of through Slides this Slides time XX measures, non-GAAP Q&A, also release. leave additional and also of earnings for unaudited financial financial XX.

our were a in of XXXX, compared million, million fiscal $XXX.X fiscal sales XXXX. $XXX.X decline total For to net X%

decline As significant ICL quarter, the a consumer Tom consumption economy and our indicated, the where fourth in ICL in fluctuating procedures. results to volatile were contributed demand sales China for impacted weak by adversely in

December, of discussions $XX.X in were that elevated. provide it country which distributors expectations with ICLs some we the for not ordinary we To in demand shipped December In levels for our XXXX, shipped year clear inventory background, in which China we became did January XXXX, million fiscal about revenue. we our XXXX, placed engage in as distributors recognize In orders course. to

required they fulfillment minimum efficient quick our with to and for that distributors EVO contracts inventory of Our delivery procedures. support levels maintain and

back the they January, than we and demand the distributors result, its not payment one inventory mitigates want in we a the additional requested shipment. of extend extension the $X.X accounting, Ultimately, as recognize to potential fourth challenges from related discussions after risks as payment geopolitical a not to in under to sales to as required tariff of well the quarter or be believe were terms that December Given that our We significant and and cost we impacts anticipated to we returned of GAAP expected, agreed of revenue. country changes. as lenses order. recognize was the million terms related potential did product importation sufficient for in did shipped indicated lower Due had to keeping

receive QX Finally, XXXX. terms, expect revenue on extended based fully the of end recognize and payment we by the full to this payment

fiscal in fiscal in compared of China results $XX.X of XXXX loss million Our a in drove $XX.X million to net net income XXXX.

was at but for basis XXX solid XXXX points, gross remained full Our a XX.X%. margin fiscal down year

associated decreased to fiscal ICLs the gross the of fourth of quarter cost shipped sales China recognition primarily margin of of December. For in XXXX, the with million $X.X due into

by was and temporary of profit idling negatively margin facility for Switzerland the the facility our U.S. expansion well period also Gross costs to facility in as impacted our as season our capabilities of related holiday manufacturing the upgrades. manufacturing during

QX December our production As gross the to due in XXXX, output. the will except in hit see decrease planned normalize related was that reduction will we margin gross margin a in order, to fiscal

We be full be margins in high in gross mid- XXs of the and to in second a year half margins gross XX%. to expect gross resulting low first margin the to approximately XXs, half

will to to our rebounds, gross we growth higher production which lead output, our term, Longer expect as margins. increase

will have capacity to and potential in CapEx manufacturing. to in demand that We continue to With is manufacturing plus to able our the our existing be Monrovia will Switzerland, achieve close significant for address incremental completion, believe margins. we XX% in without we growth which planned gross

lower of intend expenditures spend. appropriate and which decrease significant in capital, Over and globally human production manage operating XXXX, discretionary the investments in lower the reductions to bring and market. has forecast. capital capital technology will to make our light procedures In the We headcount implement STAAR expansion to capacity infrastructure we impact working and to will last our years, few made cost-cutting measures revenue manufacturing expenses, targeted output,

reductions in growth. will invest double-digit especially is continue total commercial-facing our related headcount to potential in and operating that the to A have high activities, those percentage drive of is markets to essentially that We expense overall will in on With its sell-through further and said, as appropriate. procedural nature. to will our monitor make we revenue, OpEx volume we and potential in closely fixed China impact

outlook into expense operating are XXXX provided following our the ranges and range. purposes, of the fiscal modeling and sales For end low take account high

programs We be expect million to complete costs. compensation-related million system as $XX quarter our quality expenses ERP, upgrades like as to annualize we $XX general approximately and administration CRM and technology per and we various

to million activities as we in million to and we be to demand approximately development pipeline. in $XX quarter to approximately our $XX to expect be We selling quarter expenses as our marketing markets. drive And expect million per continue $XX million to generation that $XX invest and global product expenses continue across invest research per we

quarter per per share EBITDA Turning $XX at end XXXX, half share we of or range. EBITDA outlook loss the share at of in million to a the per range to loss of in million adjusted the $X approximately resulting of EBITDA. low per EBITDA by adjusted of of high $X $X.XX where range on loss $XX year adjusted approximately approximately gain we in to followed land EBITDA the an million full range of Depending adjusted quarter our sales to range, diluted of the first anticipate loss end $XX.X per approximately loss million half million XXXX, range an the $XX second in an adjusted

cash. with to turning $XXX.X of million available cash, $XXX.X compared fiscal million and ended in at sale We cash XXXX year. investments equivalents the to for the beginning Finally,

evidenced maintain several cash sheet past despite and by ability operating our our STAAR as ability business balance operating significant and model the the leverage capital to the generate reserves Over of investments. from shown years, important strong has to our cash

which to December first debt the XX, we XXXX. had half collect approximately fully of do also $XX at accounts We and in receivable expect million no XXXX, in

additional $XX distributors million. balance AR payments is received have and below our we from now today, of our As

We through will disciplined we financial XXXX. the of as our first move half approach continue

some build-outs XXXX to technology pause year manufacturing will related system aforementioned and and approximately will CapEx improvements. total the We in $XX be and anticipate CapEx our spend the infrastructure completing primarily fiscal million, expansion

do capital capital to $XXX cash move managing of million. million our we of to of year XXXX working as and the end cash and vary half for cash quarter, reserves Use closely, $XXX and especially first will begin beyond will approximately We sale equivalents with to but XXXX. by cash the expect and flows cash, we available in be expect investments rebuilding expenditures

And to now Tom. back

Thomas G. Frinzi

Patrick. you, Thank

want to some XXXX our and XXXX forward provide path for I Before remarks and turning questions, on set to closing level beyond.

procedures China China across in is Ongoing clearly particularly markets. macroeconomic China other refractive spending growth remains market the that half for XXXX, in is globally to as of challenges we in the and our pressured business. low business achieved largest It the challenging levels. the market a in unprecedented dynamics overshadowed our large disappointing part latter consumer dropped the

have XXXX. expected the by to said market. before, we by myopia not XX increase away. almost continues points myopia going the Global population to refractive of As ICL is EVO outpace rates world's XX% to are global

We clinical of have years and a XX over unique technology outcomes. in polymer proven with success demonstrated

opportunity Our technology to rebounds. position team, including China strategies continued disciplined this us capitalize total commercial in and on and our that drive addressable best-in-class market our all growth, market as

Our provide are weather over like built resiliency to believe of years global transitory. was sheet these. to strong which we balance times uncertainty

in and We will discipline investing while expenditures managing capital. demand our areas pipeline critical maintain of closely and our our working generation and monitoring product in continue

during these growth total our the trajectory. we thank with support. want the I also dynamic to EVO we strong build team continued I of want refractive their STAAR And Again, to your return all thank you and to ICL, times for company efforts lens-based surgery a for as

now operator, questions. that, with will we And take

Operator

[Operator question with comes BTIG. Ryan first today Zimmerman from Instructions] The

Unknown Analyst

Ryan. actually is This Izzy for on

And during global guys quarter. you units what your could were you to for was out, So pricing the just to XX% like down year-over-year. if speak saw start curious looks I it about

Patrick Williams

that China it's in QX. saw about all fall we the I mean Yes.

the So units overall it's really to million through related in revenue saw. that we China, and to the $X.X and in that the decline follows

Unknown Analyst

on as I And to we this? compared to predicated And driving across XXXX like regions back you're at about Got you to the at or effect? all look assumption what's then look could look growth assuming half speak taking XXXX. refractive start it. the it for volumes we seems then as entirely hoping your a slowdown was of year guidance, in specifically is in China, stimulus

Thomas G. Frinzi

Yes.

stimulus impact I think large will the question. Certainly, a that. part me try latter let have to your address of on

I between government I some China meeting will make and U.S. there's the the clarity I in decisions. think China up key there's relationships, coming think as more know a March.

So many we we've do are China challenges times, believe, the said in as transitory.

I think going The isn't there. market well the remains integrity the business away. we're Myopia opportunity -- We feel business strong. is positioned.

do X we tale of And think cities. it's a

the believe given Given inventory the that and the we half, year first how do in levels, will ended, to to, KOLs year rather in the market in second was anticipate it's pick respond partners, but our past relationships demonstrated season we going as XXXX and with slow and able XXXX, the half. with as turns. market And elevated relationships it we'll this distributor poor believe in up be we given high be quickly our our

Patrick Williams

ahead go major I'll assumptions for correct. hit regions, are underlying and the you and And the

believe refractive for are our We that rest of down it that U.S., outlook year. the by number of China, a So will market the assuming the year-over-year. we continue believe X% excluding But be we on primarily basis U.S. do our the is still world, minus will grow overall to the the will Americas, around the challenging driven in minus to which be XX%. XX% Americas,

market taking So we still are share.

we that For market. be markets EMEA assume excluding China, and will overall do the flat APAC, for

guidance. continue course, that provided our and of we to will, We grow, in

XX% the have to end of market rebound, quite that market bit end then of in wide higher finally, refractive end of would further, assume little overall and on that continued we range. deterioration a in that our refractive year-over-year. range the overall overall hit did The a that our range XX% refractive give just a was minus at China upper the there's market, lower the of does upwards year-over-year. in And assumes China, The

Operator

Stephan Tom The next with question comes Stifel. from

Thomas Stephan

picture. we terms I heart And I of P&L accounting maybe fallout pretty guess significant how from of of the did China the start here And and I'll be not will a, the my investors issues? inventory think in forward standpoint. can the future? kind and in question as how big get I the more the these issues, I assured And at guess, a importantly, I I meaningful then have be is, follow-up. level; company moving b, that a act risk remediated, guess, mean

Patrick Williams

related inventory we we not that's think the saw I What timing XXXX Look, as that of elevated in a started in, bit certainly exiting did ultimately, the issue. we XXXX is some a were we recognize shipments seeing Yes. revenue to that and height levels.

did were because As we one of QX call, softness. our some us distributors our we China of did they on that telling earnings seeing XXXX actually lower

of to is, working in reality end and happened elevated The at revenue the recognize have that we that day, inventory no levels through the matter that. XXXX, do we what did not

in consumer we you And so revenue on your little large have very half, said, point for we stimulus that and the that believe see just very will Tom, is. and a on building as the we your focus we'll think of what to for think focus continue that China underlying basis I provided over look, range confidence, to China. assumption we and China. China. And I the large ultimate And range that the into do is ship went We question, government the first but

Thomas Stephan

China million That were sales can competition, only And connect just it. ICL if the $XX of shipped help October sort a then sort December specifically, not question recognized, one in there. and kind you November? Maybe me Got of housekeeping $X.X million I was on X-parter. sense. in makes and then dots there of of but one guess

it at can all competition, iBright from into discuss to to to guidance earlier was think impact the response factored approval, you distributor behavior year. what it as China relates their on just related the I your this is then iBright? the And And was

Thomas G. Frinzi

guidance last details let and question, Yes. Patrick some certainly, of and first the question. part part your then more add to me your can of take relative Tom, the

the as competition, think to distributor it of and order. one it's -- again, at relates level and that I happened one this distributor no. None

Let coming marketplace. very coming competitor iBright me anything had respect clear that, we We've the into into remind you with to new marketplace. been of the that do a

validate I distributor opportunity market believe does and be do competition. result they the as no we a actions think But continues to that it by attractive took the our exciting. took means of

the only in As iBright we've limited sold toric, of clinical X implants have of the in sphere said X our eyeballs. experience in versus alone, product is and million sphere. past, market the sphere They approaching is and toric, million and is XX% implants versus XX% China certainly

good So maintaining in we a reservoir established in our country, leaders those opinion with team relationships. of is clearly, have and experience key well

think in start we market positioned believe a to the refractive be sampling happen it of advantage thing curve hospitals, need well The growth but it I think And year. ICL will of world providing into it we're well the we They'll positioned that back the be in turn. And kind half of trajectory and EVO the product So to back that technology iBright we to largest all get probably to take when deserves. for to and does, market and will factor. the we by competition. versus we're is believe

Patrick Williams

your answer are to Tom, on you it's question, Patrick. the And correct. part, first Yes,

million. $X.X ship only did we So

it year decade our China full growth distributor we now. having we that fact with byproduct for the had reducing our on about XX, down October about earnings to of the did conversations for revenue QX a were from on about that year, talk and over full That for call revenue XX% we've X%. a the was longer-lasting reminder, we a As took

think bit business like IR they biggest [ the [ cetera. probably our Eye that end-user I long is Washaa et over [ a ], little took China Bright customers Group ], one term. in that's the ], support steady more They

the did recognize did revenue. newer distributor, that's not Our ship -- where reduce but we we

And X on demand what expanding salespeople they're new focused in is in ahead cetera. terms, clear As in having territories, some in shipment post we this situation, a alluded shipped appropriate became to that accounts. very cities, it into they that. with it really going as into not product demand. that. further and was X to. new They've requested December, Tom just reminder, shipped of recognize as them up the very, to extended always felt et They're we conversations Tier that Tier opening We've do were And added -- payment

And so they it those we recognize payments. make as will

what But conversations with again, again this not distributor, on and but clear -- This question sell-through to have not that we've world we and in drive in are your transitory. happen a earlier, is we had going just distributors, to view as this now need China, anywhere we we the to focused both sell-through.

Operator

question The next comes from Anthony Mizuho. Petrone with

Anthony Petrone

brought you I and or large you the bit. distributor Was guess know distributor in new December, order the new the stick I legacy distributor? had China on in dynamic. that a distributor. a on a I'll this one legacy was

things of data really other do gave did what in that what you it have that you sort to have And Slide in a good on deck China, follow-up. January, I on if consumption extent quick data guess you November, the here X? data, and have words, In in mirror October of sort decelerated a of month-by-month December? again actually I'll the February? sales ICL? And Does have then retail you the you ground seen And do have

Patrick Williams

Sure.

our think gave. it related moving they that I et in moving Tier I be that order to we've forward, those recognized X newer I allude answer as cities. just last said, specific QX X but that. Tier addressed that into distributor. cetera, reasons focused on tried expanding, other there's behind was And actually, So that revenue to accounts, Notably, to the on and will we are was The I of XXXX,

on as question Tom sell-through data, on well. that your of made terms some comments In

we We held sell-through down market share And the believe that a we look China in our to we are that. is XXXX, and the on take in own you continuing to market continue fine-tune at. would based down market was believe XX%, overall what data where refractive we tell I even

will -- We'll In it, say or have we that I cautiously because will And March But of terms I is all completely But continue are provide second make trend. what reasonable, optimistic. to of is the sell-through number. in seeing call seen that. rebound question in that what basis like that an is January, what we uptick on mid-single-digit our that terms sorry, you say to asking a in of I'm think fair and growth. sorry, to this would with be we One half. we're going point, the we're us we seeing at the monitor it's data month what doesn't looks on year-over-year updates

again, million. to underlying I China the XX% of to our market range way of minus assumption to want up large that still basis refractive revenue all is XX%, for And is reiterate, $XXX $XX million which the

Thomas G. Frinzi

is that incent going Anthony, And the monitor I China, sell-in. all data confidence quality it won't behavior represents. and an forward we're we're gives think, for but think that market would and sell-through, our just if happen a distributor you anomaly, that anywhere our closely we with of this better manage in in us was now focus together compete a I again, generating, growth will, business to long-term that not again, manage to reiterate I particular, change, where and in that now going And lot

Anthony Petrone

the And seen. Appreciate announcements we've on a sort quick here just policy that follow-up that. of some of is

China the those dates actually Do on the the factor evolving released a that anything Ministry Economic Apple that March, your does few How similar first that actually Tim of your line then you expectation January And high-level XX trade Cook there heard in the call plus package. to up? that weeks stimulus on just so was minus and that? comments the a XX, broader And will then a week disclosed package XX, is war guidance? seeing. we're announce Have ago, into

Thomas G. Frinzi

Yes.

that. the those we're you January same reading and see and comes in what to of think we'll I March, aligned dates news what and mentioned, are

we're think impact. and it going So the the see we And to by to be again, half have as optimistic back move does, surprised get as it pleasantly about I be think to things stimulus I normal should second an forward. year, of

hit see that's combination. If is let's high as Chinese and trend at Year sign. said, another season, Patrick but early February. the encouraging that We'll January January encouraging, New continues, not in February -- look

So keeping just our the trying ear and everybody the ground to like read to we're else. tea leaves

Patrick Williams

patient And to China. what consumer We sort await what there's of savings money eagerly they see the can But we're that in seeing with that stimulus in that definitely to spend. is We people or higher know there's the are to refractive getting in reality right going government the confidence. simply now is procedures policies place put just China. consumer not is stimulate

this data market and can and can do We to that rebound, we come back. continue it that have believe we take share, points say

We're I basis end. high but wide a of the China. have already, do Again, to tried put on refractive on some little So the low the We end market. in rebound the XX%. our around we've not bullish a bounds range that. being opinion of said know our that's what for this I've range overall of is overly that of the minus bit

Operator

The comes from Blair. with next Macauley question Kilbane William

Macauley Kilbane

year. guidance. I this call This a up as trend doesn't the tonight. expected you is price, benefit enter already become China on pricing the include EVO. have it, guide mentioned, lower a for volumes the to EVO+, understand would what lower on the Macauley on first-gen competitor you follow and from And some any Margarate to wanted but market here I continue

other you the confidence mentioned, stimulus as the the and guide, low guess, input that what high even you potentially of variable that So than on Patrick? end I gives in a

KOL have team of been And the than as those has China to a But traveling of some this mentioned and more follow-up, X before. appreciate relationships, then think out they in heard I we you just tale have Tom, cities past. the I

second more So I bigger or -- you just do of half we look guess, visibility longer can kind a gives what as that picture? more from I become those to improvements sustainable you standpoint guess what beyond and term help

Thomas G. Frinzi

product, good could relationships. Look, those that have model all positioned. business challenges are know news think listen to we and believe come, fundamental in have this or understand problem not end And we boils and stimulus transitory. And at a along of polymer. unique that product with a better level. at down great the as said the the It's China a business day, performance we We've well we're the I material a a to we KOL level. We

We have need outcomes. is a of Myopia history vision correction. great People not going away. to continue

is the a returns business consumer And China result as to turn. going as we of stimulus, think confidence

whether up know to be minus going We're in way. that's partners That's QX, happen. inventory And how market plus the to that inventory. working to that's distributor with trying pick gets down could terms normal as that's whether thoughtful accordingly thus as range we believe we're QX, XX. QX, market in levels we manage to of of service our we to appropriate whether rebounds, can a And revenue XX about will what the the be back an positive. Now

Patrick Williams

elevated work follow levels, to on inventory down with up And be EVO again, we associated EVO+, these would as product. that

EVO+ have we make we related an did as case, any thoughtful what to right be now we're being this to In ASP the upside want so launch launched EVO+, fair, we in we to that guidance. XXXX, potential middle we sure incorporate incorporate standpoint. from not in which And about of

to closely. do, to need We competitor what that do the going watching we're is and see

guidance, competitor better not the we'll in and So there. the comments, it could is move be I it and out closer potential commentary doing into upside, and did exactly understand we my as prepared as factor said provide what we

Operator

The next Morgan question comes from Wood Stanley. Patrick with

Patrick Wood

is the wide what the the have for And in you given on fair guide forecast. totally range a enough having record,

So totally on fair enough that.

a to one my guess guys I tariffs first alluded few you times. is

know don't But are because Just could the be thinking lay things chain not really might it's know you and -- I supply there how you or conceptually impacted? impossible the land. your how evolve of about could how

Thomas G. Frinzi

happen we in product minimizes relative bit basis they And up insulation certainly little plan in midyear on when as which a whatever from a is Well, in country facility provides being. tariffs also can EVO+ go-forward with end Switzerland impact tariffs. Switzerland, of past, we're to our gearing what in approved already, said again, have Plus China, up. we've product that our from the of the going to the shipping begin inventory

well certainly XXX% from we're we're insulated not what we fairly but could So geopolitically. happen immune, we think think

Patrick Williams

chain can our supply United build are standpoint, To a all highly from a States. vertically and chemicals. raw sourced tell I few the integrated. it's products, porcine And materials, you that Those from some we are

with you're the parts the China other not all. have that tariffs, at news about world, will we do but any hearing impact So of that of just see any not we material

Once again, vertically the sourced United integrated that within is States. and anything virtually matters

Patrick Wood

be here. Because lot relatively inventory that's amount like -- as exactly then your How there's through or a kind 'XX of because mean, would -- guide at sell-out. be? And a I midway helpful. versus going follow-up, sell-in very sort where world qualitatively out obviously year, of How road to feel a as low just map. of the the left you've would taken the imagine inventory China Super out normalized, for the just are quite getting of super even pans quick customers' the do in helpful exactly rate levels you inventory of be we

Patrick Williams

in months perhaps revenue think people Yes, lot napkin inventories most got with or it's a of And fair clearly, to the upwards can a elevated of a X do I us you've back of shipping X not probably quarters, quarters. question. X for say,

would what range, into the much large is market, is ship in. of to potentially overall of account refractive minus once the so of we've basis a over XX% plus XX% which revenue situation to how tried additional again, we take that And

the low looking work end, whether which levels the back do we're to country ultimate that what appropriate looking the the we believe is we're high next-day China. throughout down same-day need levels the if lenses on provide order is down we're is to which end, are amount high inventory to, contract in -- Clearly, we to Patrick, the in the our what lenses in that distributors, do or with both contractual really service we're to end of or

Operator

comes The Steve from Lichtman with question next Oppenheimer.

Steven Lichtman

build that on I point, wanted Patrick. to last

need you growth order in market revenue that that in can So you end as half inventory So what so kind of recognizing do see the quarter? you ask well. one. that's I'll question second work the to first the third to here, for in question start down

quarters so you seem why that G&A, control, be range your would here? that, On G&A would the a wide it in little the on through more as look

Patrick Williams

Sure.

and -- question. me to backwards go back start let original So the your

component variable what compensation would everything it, other relates side G&A call there's and related large to On XXXX, compensation. I the it is of mostly and stock-based into reset as all the we a targets coming to really what

you're But assured, on So seeing high end. on the the that's G&A what rest side. that's

achievement If are that, you look at the the we of which there means some low of end that. guidance, wouldn't of an managing be

QX. may is sustained, in and our manage if to incremental And continues for we're we right own seeing that let's be on inventory that the rebound, but some we're hitting if byproduct overall is it When But down we you higher question at that the if or really, is sooner. see is indication your in would assume need market hold market see as doing this to where ship can now level share, revenue what focused again, the will XX%, now, low it to and comes of go, any some and we of see If us we of then on be refractive on point. the market, we the be the some yet we're end January We determined market we $XX million. it's range, would end that would the could spikes, take what down. see may

Operator

Sidoti Jim The next question comes Sidoti & with Co. from

James Sidoti

operating Can a you year, burn loss It the which based in while? cash cash the you on like million $XX burn the your in you about for looks given. above talk to expect you've about to little is expect guidance

go? the going to where cash is So

Patrick Williams

Yes.

Patrick So it's here.

range take range So of it. wide revenue we to our on incremental getting of have to $XXX right? support OpEx much a the million back that's And $XX million, again, revenue, pretty million a $XX China range that to doesn't

a it's of margin. translation high words, contribution other in So

very margin translation. gross XX% to XX% you're a apply getting that, you to if So strong some

So of part it. that's

exit range of low year into million, China million the on to the tried -- is the at we to I that take between will $XXX $XXX that's And revenue. to end, provide account to large and what forecasting

of what a fully did We It's because being go is worked have cash that And expansion down have CapEx $XX say of million down. of we our I you'll all XX-K, which elevated AR we levels, CapEx to improvements. some inventory is we and notably approximately related need our That We the cetera. be, to which reduction of and inventory, do do course, would finished goods, obviously some primarily years. working in some through we're of call et XXXX. in as terms look, that see the Again, capital, some we collectible. what In produce the results inventory. completing just usage our our managing managing prior infrastructure material of manufacturing raw will is -- complete, from are

if know make a parts need that on to where see period sure you we I on to all to moving Did up I should try to guys -- you lot catch Jim. after the the the to, are. in math you with Happy work, put short of time. a model we've calls

James Sidoti

right. All

that business it it If year. picks second like So burn everything half sounds in really depends cash on what be up, significantly China the else, lower. happens would in the the of

Thomas G. Frinzi

the it in portion market largest the our surgery that a revenue is of depends on your yes, point, large refractive fact does, clearly Yes, to China, and right, Jim.

everybody our ex region, ex digits. double Americas. let India, Japan, release, China and in we're me remind and as the even in call, growing But Asia the South Korea, press indicated remarks our EMEA, we Pacific in on we're prepared growing

growing. are We

proper how operating as a about how strike we're to expenses, we've So managing our managing tried we're cash, balance. think we

we to to So invest, return thoughtful certainly be we're kind We're those where markets are markets get on to aren't growing. want trying a reasonable that that about of growing in going supporting ourselves we we're and where entrenching investment.

to debt So years, the and a manage the sheet built with lose balance we think not over that we're through have, here. strong we us the that of well that no the nature let's fact I growing challenges certainly facing up serves are sight transitory

generation this, or X-quarter challenge, that it's still manage Whether side a cash other and that out a be We for to to it's prepared stronger believe sheet strong able, through the because of matter, get to X-quarter come our trajectories model balance produces. organization our back X-quarter business we're X-quarter side, a on the and or optimistic the a challenge. growth

James Sidoti

that And was my next question.

marketing issues the initiatives despite full right? that speed like in you're your ahead Europe. So with in going it U.S. some sounds of China, the Is and

Thomas G. Frinzi

Absolutely.

Operator

The with next question Matthew Sandler. Piper from comes O'Brien

Unknown Analyst

on was on refractive to Why X take depressed lag is for of goes for the confidence economy as rapidly declines did low your of quicker lagging saw QX? really consumer This long as you what the just to get volume go hoping that discussion just for it get that confidence. given about guidance might some maybe broader end China's I to with to years. before? how back far consumer on confidence And Matt. hoping saying imply slowdown It than as appropriate. so it refractive triangulated Phil -- kind back kind was then without coming the in your current you XX% consumer volumes volumes that time. on imply color And being been been has on given We've talking does

Thomas G. Frinzi

Yes.

what can't yes, I with maybe refractive myopia. It those not speak there a going So see at start age, we consumer to the happens continue myopia continue I'll of refractive specific some of of demographic to market, right? market. to grow. with is questions, seeing incidence the think away. piece, to we're but is a I confidence -- your and people younger think China largest higher the I There's is the

eyes. X love I people their think gets an out down X to EVO back getting procedure. just that eyes is so And it the every EVO of in

we have so bit a more And little why probably resilient. been that's might

our absolutely comes uptick an as consumer think in confidence back, we I will models. refractive see

procedures today. these as EVOs to levels reiterate just elevated still a We happening happening are to inventory today. work I nature. want transitory Refractive happening are procedures are today. through everyone, have to

Obviously, the minus down I look, believe with up XX% overall came inventory we how refractive plus us, ahead market, that China refractive of Clearly, product market our for risen, in are for as sell-in the XX%, to revenue for XX% and we're was think in, the working have that demand recognize, we of terms the in we therefore, In sell-through. XX% we ship XXXX. down. we levels the and shipping them consumption

do end But some that the that is will low depression, think the they consumer continuing to that half. to the With first said, can especially government stimulate to everything in be believe also confidence. China in going we we see

Patrick Williams

other talk mentioning do someone focus areas board. early that will January. specifically and Apple to earlier electronics at believe the look but on across stimulate heard consumer cell That We government we in to confidence more the phones, about happened

Unknown Analyst

helpful. quick then one That's follow-up. And

this As thing? far way related of China Tier as focused to new Beijing, the lower-level cities go, any coal the a X as Shanghai, the distributor being more canary might inventory on as sort be prefectures, the in a mine that far

Patrick Williams

anything, probably those cities will clearly, If big rebound No. quicker.

necessarily there Tier that fruit get We don't Tier the big that to X out to some are and time to mid-hanging low take want we making efforts to to into X of the patients travel believe want there's the move to procedure cities. because

and the reasons Tier X X and why network that has went was that distributor the that into of newer cetera. Tier et so the countryside And we one with large cities,

Operator

from with Canaccord. Young comes question next The John

John Young

from any Pardon taking the background airport. I'm the noise call

to force focus you your the First, on on China. just field ground that have today. want on I

them haven't force? with what differently feedback sales own We the you to But you from how distributors? your them incentivize dynamic about have And help heard spoken really yet. maybe the manage

nice just today? question, relation cost many about It Lane to U.S. in updates growth today How on you've any savings the see you accounts in growth return you're at? I'll past to are my And the was speaking second the Fast ask quarter-over-quarter the highlighted And to U.S. in the initiatives too. measures

Thomas G. Frinzi

the past, ground variety and No, of in China the And roughly XXX in focus channel people you've Yes. on selling, appreciate clearly, question. I China own the distribution creation. say in training, a it, support. around with training to application our capacities us been the our demand Relative clinical John, heard as on have people for we and constantly has there,

to going to in continue we're those focus areas. So

to changes of now the our distributors, really really this sell-through, as call, level sure you sell-through sell-in paying distribution earlier be as incent in to not partners. allude one on really to we're execution working is with attention focusing against the But closer to heard procedures true It's to on making working now ground the our that behavior opposed at directly about us the as and but got selling our just in. on as creation, accounts teams with well demand

Patrick Williams

Yes. but And growth the piggyback it's deck. as of Tom to that on say I all hands well, answer U.S. would just off I'll China, on

to said, move the as given focused China. do Foust, in Chief closely Our over back especially on highly are a distributors. China, of And sell-through with back He's needle headed Warren Operating just working download. Officer, we great are our from us to came Many and there. clearly, what need Tom with we

We EVO+ shortly distributors opportunity open also we with up an here coming as and collaborate out with have our forward. move terms to

big if there well opportunity behavior differently. going to We part so think of be we want will a And forward. and incentivize economics there's do that for as what as change we

to a thank Related for end year. the it. you mentioning quarter to have It strong U.S., did

market which said a not think we XX% for underlying maybe year-over-year, X%, some we that clearly down pressure comments, overall in has refractive, the still it is our in As rebound. U.S.

to share, take we've our year-over-year XX%. basis to approximately overall We moderated continue market but a growth on

XX now down to and than sales We we where XXXX. we have the that enthusiasm, do around curve. out do But the back a there diopter to Fast move our ready team year of at new more meeting we and what a little do excitement. of continue I high see about a it's is out to -- continued into the XX have and we of our there from started lot off can way has And lot segment of U.S. lanes think just X, national to came now. go customers, The a was big

say, we think likes is And build to right? to what I Tom the as importantly, pie can again, do

Thomas G. Frinzi

the has the clearly, decline. think share. building but We particularly I melting been even should vision cone. know steady the get a laser back into it like taking jokingly the in be referred you of we cream to that to And And yes, I'd market Yes. U.S., Look, world, emphasized But what, say ice as up. around a more. correction, we're in business point pie globally have

but we engage a lens procedure. continue need take market, the spectacle procedure to corneal-based versus a to share. We'll We'll more and contact to for wearers outpace current lens-based opt refractive wearers refractive

in dry cetera. XXXX, benefits educating We're lens-based have the technology, So new et It's cetera, et nerves. we geared towards the fact initiatives inducing the refractive eye. preserve not corneal of them of that cornea for not we're integrity removable community, optometric future surgery generically, considerations, the on a severing

alluded better medicine, I you've grow business, to as believe well, that of as have our as I continue surgery because pie have more advantage because we'll people take say us doing the share. We we we and take is that. to to, refractive heard we'll better to of to on we're But and in think we well as and And have the focused think bring believe some part XXXX you of focus markets continue decline. into

comes staying enrollment full about in vision as We in the head-to-head evidence We end be it to be the off study we've opposed going here. U.S., lens-based of is will that. U.S. and a obviously correction. enrolled of think kicked QX, We're have to XX% that a on future corneal that's to completed track when the further demonstrating we by think based

keeping is China and get to it We continue kind believe you believe no people, and for happy a initiatives down, build the of business. to opportunity we head manage a adversity, to growth best we the our We out that a this we believe it. But Nobody is occurred. back have sheet balance gut best We believe growth this the we have is great technology. has So myopia other the about our issue that We still doubt come can side have and through that expect. have it's the us There's stronger come transitory. to manage punch. been that.

Operator

next David & The Saxon Co. Needham with question from comes

David Saxon

the sooner revenue about. recognize talked up I follow thought order. you you on you suggesting to China. seem that could typically wanted quarter million I $XX to that Patrick, third be than shipment recognize on into you

to Is other some see order what in So you payment that do revenue? it need to actual recognize milestone? or

follow-up. what, And assumed have China then guide, a iBright? the a And in from Tom, I'll wasn't I Like is answer. previous clear any, if impact on really then guidance

Thomas G. Frinzi

Sure.

to of to a small worth $X situation. Let that's me to answer gone on our business they've revenue try first saying whether this somewhere current of Obviously, in record million in in think the of pie. their state around the iBright relative going they in do I they're or historic think Again, China, year. it's part state, our

is we competition be market brand-new realities product. I we'll but firm the big a have only times, good be it range. range, established I in the by it's by continue We've launching is given the market to believe these But minus such that's we realities not believe but well coming we being think XX% It but market the in think opportunity, iBright we tough as the a to a more ongoing in said, coming that position also the Granted, weather to market. thing. competition market, that in. tried economic it's validates positioned. economic So in a We economic be we believe, plus driven to our XX% balanced than to

Patrick Williams

little bit hit question And more. your Yes. I'll a

revenue, of our of million worth Tom, of said, $X do off pockets, case. if about piggyback out come think he just would So that's to they'll the which as clearly we

We know trialing as tried That's in that also do the for $XXX included to We've they our best provided lenses. may million million. we some to $XX that guidance that give to and out account free of ability.

work relation ship on placed that revenue reasons make I the lot. it the a mid-January order that. one in distributor on our It's did of in product ready the everybody, settling revenue numbers were recognize are shipment, We based to the guys were normally was we frame, know we that. and I we And of as that why reiterate by sure with we it. as want to recognize our time digesting In commercial fact, on and forward December, we to in I you pulled in this kind through XXXX would reconfirming worldwide the on team.

revenue. if in a the by That's to able they pretty This that ended continue a million, you will our distributor they we we pay and from what to essentially that said, They to when timely And some paid determination. being a commitments pay it orders that just we against $XX.X we QX, that do have a and going pay will anticipate X-month pay in us QX to we listen wasn't that's not manner. end And for is said business. felt little revenue, September. recognize run manner -- made how weren't that And we outstanding bit have for on. recognize number. shipped prolonged they we in that That they of them which be have begin recognize to like up by extension. to timely We appropriate to the

them issue related no happen their to to Again, need business. is had working their is liquidity. from capital. not And them. conversation payment would working terms, simply again. candid issue This through to we simply there not no we've So this extended they choose This ship. with minds related our will and if to There's just frank have

little answer I this that we accounting, of the sure it's bit for required required this. So it a be to It's under want accounting is what's you, happened a very clear. but just GAAP. that nuanced that do make David? Does to

David Saxon

helpful. super Yes. was No, that

at a So any it sounds more right? it on of trickle and rev the point. like the just ordering I Is mean, $XX.X versus be million might recognized rec, that given

Patrick Williams

of the the million. I So big right? a but end We're already if our is that was year. end my at us tell listened pay prepared of from -- $XX could is our $XX in they of amounts, It tend of one the million December, lumpy -- you AR you payment portion China significant said A on kind be, reduction of I would fiscal distributors. what pretty to million around down comments, to $XX a

they of they is to tend bulks, take So do in pay which to orders. how consistent large kind

of orders happened until outsized It's year. they this specific the reasons quarter. did as pushed work speculate and to and order why. down that they But outsized just and day, not it -- the second the little the the of Again, we'll multiple second was the towards the back half. take right a and can the in -- at end end wait inventory We levels was thing, to throughout we the like last the come be

David Saxon

Okay. Very my clear. on then the U.S. And follow-up is

the you in you're So growth if heard I Patrick, XX% guide. right, assuming

mean, saw in than the a 'XX did small you what like And I you 'XX. lower I but well. as it's think dollar XX% numbers, touch growth is in

that then driving confident how U.S.? the you what's assumption? growth are And So in in sequential

Thomas G. Frinzi

we again Look, bigger $X and focused degree on to get quickly $X I start think the when I that pie $X going U.S. to And driving David, again, as begin we to how down the think can that's said, quarter increases, growing all this and to the the market in be can a we're you'll start see million we really look, million business. is million,

believe this since pie terms channel. taking from deserves, me whole that's time We've growth, lens-based of brand-new share now a to it years. And the time you've surgery. brought just build for takes take the as taking going of about do simply to not that. say the hard been going And And ever shares refractive -- continue and again, technology time this, to market think new marketplace. this channel, as doing declining I And a the at I But time again, kind to continue need been X.X we're get U.S. pretty in to to heard a we're to it EVO we X to declining in we developing we've a growing in market.

Patrick Williams

the about to of that see the I $X.X on that answer We supplemental, your U.S. where we we then for in is XXXX. And we're mark expect what into now a QX team's be right would be had range, pumped year. XXXX. coming would in think $X think in QX. quarter close expect to would million, Yes. but provided decent we sequential, question QX right, I low do up. expecting million the We'll we the -- our in did And we above The get the that

Operator

with Stephens. Carrico comes from question next The Mason

Mason Carrico

few reorders clarity for range the for what revenue Is And back If range? it for on volume year did inventory procedure growth required with that? you Or half China minimal cleanups assumptions say of in the remainder that are is, for the provided levels range dynamic it is a quick worked the up the for some above you down back China. assuming half? volume then sort assumes that your there year? the Just the back stepping a full is China half of range and for to normalizes

Patrick Williams

Yes.

inventory. talked probably as levels, get elevated down I of going close we levels probably we the down is most as not a we much upwards inventory that make numbers to work to dark on million, about, contractual down low of the Clearly, lot revenue the haven't those we as to inventory first we're number right? X the can range inventory worked $XX end, levels. had we of and shipping But in as months of we that of on that said, trying we're the hoped. contractual quarters, on have the As if one, to assume end then low the the try to people So sure range X to

we're versus the up sell-through for to peg XX%, In numbers, gains. we with the terms sell-through to of can how trying that refractive saying I'm XX% thinking in that's a overall what that's although to us overall our of sell-through overall our right? kind number what have market now, In if probably that words, down assumption market, again, right is overall procedures, it's you other market for that share about say were some we we're that fair is say

be to conservative work that this want make will very but it market we in that believe 'XX, continue rest so at, we're that 'XX. We've share. in sell somewhat because we move of done it where so half into to every We levels on down can we we feel in again. they're we be as take all sure And really with we assured as through to inventory year, we did don't we the comfortable we this 'XX, in, and run second product trying

Operator

for attending this our As questions at question-and-answer Instructions] and call. concludes conference there [Operator Thank our session are presentation. time, further concludes also today's this you no

disconnect. may You now

STAAR Surgical (STAA) 11 Feb 252024 Q4 Earnings call transcript