W.R. Berkley Corporation 4.125% (WRB) 27 Jan 252024 Q4 Earnings call transcript

Company Profile

Participants

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.	executive
Richard Baio	executive
Taylor Scott	analyst
Elyse Greenspan	analyst
Andrew Kligerman	analyst
Mark Hughes	analyst
Michael Zaremski	analyst
Katie Sakys	analyst
Jian Huang	analyst
David Motemaden	analyst
Meyer Shields	analyst
Brian Meredith	analyst
Joshua Shanker	analyst
William Berkley	executive

Call transcript

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Operator

Good day, and welcome to W.R. Berkley Corporation's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2024 Earnings Conference Call. Today's call is being recorded. The speaker's remarks may contain forward-looking statements.

Some of the forward-looking statements can be identified by the use of forward-looking words including, without limitation, believes, expects or estimates. will, such by should plans, results. made report us expectations by the that as the be XX-K estimates on the our you business achieved. Please contemplated materially representation be a that us Form caution forward-looking which operate our and not statements regarded filings environment factors or refer December We to fact, annual in the SEC that for affect and our XX, in for the XXXX, a important may ended other year with description of we future W. R. like under Berkley new turn Corporation of statements, to over is disclaims obligation the not its as update whether any information, to future such call or forward-looking to alter any now Mr. obligation events result expressly or a and would otherwise. I Rob Berkley. go sir. ahead, Please

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

good you welcome Lisa's our me thank much, Lisa, very all, and let call. echo afternoon fourth quarter to and

Executive comments this going we'll we're Rich So my Bill direction going past, through we to I'm quick highlights. the to end, follow wish to conversation participants over walk that up to have few a to and some Berkley, then then follow take hand to going Chief on Chairman, happy where be with Baio, He's typical it any our very as shortly, going the joining us on in in. take Rich. agenda I'm with along Financial in to end; Officer. And

all do also, on just people shouldn't colleagues, of these to the my year it terribly recent behalf during that forget a the horrific be not do to all certainly my about I perspective, value that events. From just fires. colleagues in a for events doing been quick we a many society. but do that I by will who an it hurricanes is our demonstrate California to that and its really impacted as moment organization our over hand know as of are on very impacted up XXXX to hope industry just behalf focused were other the concern the live our are supposed to expressing and peers we organizations and on Before ensuring very at certainly the But comment, of and same. our to responsibilities, myself other Rich, what not of have we I result our for

that, take then us I run with and to Rich, hand highlights, through there. you So will it over want we'll it Rich. the from if to

Richard Baio

Hurricane which XX.X%, component XXXX. Cat from The up to prior the of in and expense the results, of XX.X% second with $XXX full the ratio continuing growth by parts, combined in was to XXXX. the year million $XXX XXXX net flat slightly favorable more billion. was technological income loss of our Great. and $X.XX XX.X%, was due XX.X% business to year's of mix record losses continuation The was points. The XXXX and with record the year, resulting full equity a the ticked ex $X.X cat of Thanks, in down over with consistent benefit from ratio to efficiencies year core quarter-over-quarter the combined cat on to on remains the return further to million The to more current full than billion and XX.X%, bringing XXXX prior increase our bottom and will the X.X and accident on XX.X%. year marked performance, year ratio XX.X% flat equity operating record net earned or year premiums top The was increased than fourth out We combined of loss Milton, The operational strong X.X reflect due share, comfortably year $XXX underwriting X.X% development X.X%, XX.X%. year business. current of underwriting XX.X% on of respectively. year or prior income calendar portfolio. Starting monoline with segment's full record into points prior lines on equity before represented ratio income, of equity our results, earnings losses with ratio grew XX%. The and the Insurance $X grew initiatives line The and the million an to premiums driving quarter, loss of increased In and full the excess, everyone. quarter, quarter. Drilling underwriting quarter, believe expense the written year the underwriting $X.X accident with primarily investment written XXXX an Rob. XX% in net decrease share, drivers $X.X XX.X%. Net year competitive to per line. evening, XXXX X.X% quarter increased to million pricing gross another throughout a were increasing operating than closed billion, Appreciate ratio business. & behind to return of The Monoline Reinsurance top in property the below quarter record due with $X.XX year operating per best all Good to more environment. line it. premiums return segment casualty growth the yielding key in with driving Excess fourth return of ratio

size over portfolio in increased core investments. quarter XXXX foreseeable the investment core Moving the compared due to money future higher grow of X.X% to to in portfolio to to on rates book the and We roll-off $XXX the million. expect with the fourth new portfolio. growth continue The the do yields

year flow XXXX enabled the operating billion has record, while $X.X which before's and operating flow invest of to billion, and of high the AA-. record was more also quality almost of a followed from cash us credit $X.X Our maintaining cash

$X driven and market preferred equivalents In rate securities. gain. movements rate benefited led to investment our X.X in at XX% favorable and certain X.X adjustments billion. Net almost our plus the XXXX, the in the addition, energy from allowances $XXX we've sectors were cash foreign against periods. This of in from quarter. or tax some to Investments common duration of will And the primarily operating of equity increased full established the for to had value up years year effective true XX.X%, and million services the years quarter in prior investment tax of XX%, gains and effective end we cash be and valuation financial expect utilization brings The carryforwards loss unrealized minus. we XXXX by

income of the dividends $XXX As million of and the and share dividends shares. by special through equity $X.X to to billion, $X.X to increased record of paid it $XX in the capital million relates quarter, repurchases. In shareholders we offset million and billion, repurchased capital, to due XX.X% net of partially fourth stockholders' $XXX primarily regular return

and Our per finally, the million year. repurchases after-tax you. share of before is it book an XXXX, full grew I'll year-end million to $XXX XX.X% investment loss And as improvement for value of year. Rob, unrealized the prior from dividends $XX back turn

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

you Very all. is sure Okay. appreciated it Rich, thank I'm by clear. much. very

to full another release -- want to So the I few get you've this exceptional truly we before comments, do a and crannies that for just on before then a these our team, stage, on would done. again on a as and outcome highlighting this call through both into take I on the obvious nooks colleagues moment a to of did year we that the Rich's of an X,XXX of offer typically XXXX heard reminder but the is happen was have the had all, just I and organization. And team roughly a did calls, thoughts for folks sport, this as just job our opportunity today. flip speaking team, to the you be the thank likely and not and behalf quarter, have well at marketplace the to a to of reflection three pause speaking and us congratulate the very yet privilege The the is on

So you, team, pivoting and truly, the on thank marketplace. congratulations great yet over couple thoughts another performance. Maybe again, a the on of to to

social with, social equally. market, this just said, plaintiff that all to quite plagued continues The the as in as combination inflation have litigation game. been known fuel not As otherwise frankly, to the That to funding, up does of jet product it back of much liability emboldened apply pocket, be along lines far their having bar an by they inflation. continues

in is to a seeing reaction claims most more just liability are physical far or inflated. By places we and example in in to certainly those coming would example, of than is what pick more out are to give seeing or claims the a inflation the we business the tends within where would you of to liability or an coming while it exposed related the space the what maybe commonplace seeing be auto to type we prevalent mal that is you see space, be injury articulate are awards will space, of So is to types med a be out look jury far where more someone, that if more or try more in to there point. and be lines actually few liability specific, of D&O the certain accountants' that at

the disappointing the that and casualty groundswell surprising, and to challenges. the suspicion both even there been opportunity is slow but months to specifically applaud gradual for you over a lack our the market, market our to have we tailwind some pivot found. to meantime, certainly is much will Pivoting impact is and and in bit the insurance, reinsurance property colleagues been more reinsurance of to short our are and to the very reinsurance space. But a slowing. And for are if hopefully over will to it social frankly, discipline is, or is it and the sluggish be One of there in the is the we'll that years, no when that's X/X, inflation a me, property discipline, moment, for things coming tail to we coming market, over that is of see and see respond tailwind, the discipline the there what has lines, that seeing quite you been moment, has clear create was It an the exercising. the building, market how of reinsurance that California retro but for fires at they so, the the colleagues still property, that

the our example, was to By quite adjusted retro. it and a was property a similar percentage headwind. was growing down our risk XX%-ish, there contrary, cat fact, renewal In for

we I the Moving don't it's reinsurance we out where a But of concerning, the yes, if us find had written more the XX%, what a bit, being ratio, And out, I risk this X.X%, retention back premium, to a repetitive, bit XX%. going you little our at or was you market X%. little that posture a at very be many at look at to the a lot what back little casualty been need that more renewal believe Rich, matter I be that to workers' little have to earlier following came to know that Rate comp net ex with you to above on fact Rich add. we're quarter. many guess, for which how comment quarters is at unpacked if bit think years. and is back for and matter, of a consistent continues in the conditions for how I carefully. And don't appropriate, defensive a of stage.

a been the the been at along XX.X% expense up. go today, and going with to ask investment the on hold our front, ratio But are COVID on able foreseeable. pre-COVID for about BPO. And where the moment. think expenses gone having bit very good continue we and technology, expense to if you -- talked in utilization of where away, little line us the Rich look be talk expenses expenses we've a the back you with a is on, heads you for to benefit in a journey about I'm was sub-XX% we the to we've continuing of Rich, even through place. to you about this that On if be

a to you and to in take going Ritchie, a keep please. I'm a to pause, if minute, going but moment, breath, catch expenses to my going I'm So for speak want

Richard Baio

Sure.

ratio began and area. the preceding going $XX expense mid-XX So X handle. Rob the our if low certainly XXs to XX.X% low basically been to go alluded to post-COVID, where to back in XXXX a as ago, back to, certainly, that, benefited and prior, we But And change. with we've -- XX% decade has at

expense seen X-point in certainly, So have period to close of that a improvement ratio the time. over

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

we amount our wholesale mind of amount cost that business keep the due would to a one I the a add of business, fair in And meaningful that, and is acquisition in just needs fact has an mix business to of do market. write to greater that we the

activity place So Rich what speaking just be combined when market. comes the are of out, the that a topic a as and given in ratio, I cats. Obviously, to mean, Not folks attention it again, line do California California private efforts, the XX.X%, covered California-light we just personal areas the early the come in to has space. on And space, quarter. speculating very we the of cat remind of that will participate the of but it the a would property. our one bad it's personal that around Obviously, lot client is within known to the line -- Berkley One, gotten not

every about an note as we're see of loss is, while it will duration sure we're from Again, respectable to AA- talked associated about that still can the with this. us we our the get Rich investments. flagged a not some covered the feeling delivering see we some fires, keep would So day, going opportunity. that. shareholders helpful. I on punchline passing continues you to based number good have And Rich very I'm Simultaneously, duration, that hopefully, that to and today. Switching will saw expect stronger quarters. When nudge the opportunity, think QX the that to over with out. in We activity everything I The this for we've return is I

out when taking of change out without But by popped are X.X opportunity, and of not from to to it. feel let our see And we the X.X no we again, change. it pressure. window advantage that going and pass So colleagues

I the another an plays of we've think will, that or portfolio economic has income. Obviously, when through told think our folks economic model. if think reawoken. reduced forgot investment over can that. the data quarters, of we depressed, I model, interest of you a not is see at going But past story the investment fully talked really component extended about And couple I this point as were that of stage. into time that that and being about were the been rates period lot and whole Everyone

couple of a data for So points you.

yield domestic quarter for book Our the was X.X%. approximately

X.X% is plus. money Our new rate today

billion we talked year with rate have the So flow can we that in yield, that new portfolio the or book the and know see, along million $XXX what that you as a growing quarter, cash for means. is the increase where I Rich about all of $X.X think money considerably above

set more from certainly, a that setting margin not reality for is we're and is to short, So a And be and at table day, minimum, the way. deteriorating. already that a improve long story and think we it's It's what's following: XXXX. table year XXXX likely is every is the the in more attractive over with our time, will set, the passing very The punchline? underwriting here

key spread mentioned where, new pace. the to to view government a above healthy grow continue of borrowing frankly, to model, far investment as continue moment an ago, assets be, money where as book need money our just work economic will going to that a as on current other us our In to to And portfolio, to the for inflation be, is the I component put opportunity rate, there at a at addition is yield. to healthy quite that, be given going investable the

overnight. is it that disappearing do not we As see today,

particularly likely be frankly, process are all story and the fact. with like, to obviously, is and those how to today, we day, information the statements they not you 'XX that but need of and to you people 'XX So year, the insightful unfold, but And digest shared data see the beyond. more and quite anyway will over passing every the more just with don't perhaps likely numbers

Lisa, we there, pause as Okay. Q&A. was, it promised. for if than I go Why up could usual, don't ahead we and and That probably open more

Operator

We'll first Alex from today Scott, Instructions]. take the Barclays. [Operator question

Taylor Scott

potential period that? like your have growth. for we're for seeing It on does a leverage with where balanced out given through through we budge you even just not about that we And First the where where medium to margins growth through improvement, and going run one just capital on the go going think to willing and should mean, should long over with lower what's insurance return potentially reinsurance, think to term? like even but sounded how than I you be balancing all periods how just would property. Do get I like how potential particularly you're in had with we you're be you you is on the all to landscape, to think

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

A, an for that question. risk-adjusted business Well, the B, follows: in fact you are returns. the we, thank as good on in it are as unapologetic organization, thoughts And my make we're to

We it defensive taking will will write we and there, the when no when business we margin have think the more the is we is posture and think don't a into qualms there. margin lean

that I is don't past just exercising where have that was is in down we X, in because press than and shared frankly, quarters or X but the market release. we casualty the you and discipline, you -- an you quite we talked actually, not that of you will, numbers the more can think that time return. our we expecting reinsurance again. And That's appropriate earlier, if see see quarter of XX%. I and can Slide earlier And lay comments, our out think Page demonstrated for on only have the time about the risk-adjusted today,

makes it and think we not. we So participate sense will where

we can't control the market. Alex, only So that all when control We our control together, can you We can behavior. what can control. we put

for we some I try of the the in colleagues and take growth They opportunities from can and pretty to of on with see there done, reinsurance the great around at you slowing there, to is opportunity look it. And a that you exists we lot have we're day all advantage of the But much and fact at chaff, going a more, seeing businesses parts think there front, you the nobody is property But have and we're market understand are grow, at we knows lot in place. Again, have high that opportunity stage, to we higher separate insurance looking still good business, of frankly, opportunity you're if capitalize to are -- our until the and all We out that growing it that of think or is are think quite the in there. when put the even on while front, wheat this that. growing rate. single a today. when a together, we're great of comment are how much still digit expertise. sure at the We our

on -- lot hopefully we margin is. was a think, grow part, look demonstrates I again, at the but or of So X, Page that where Slide release, it if the of you X my babble

so to does rate healthy the what should to trend. at And able that of mean? excess a be We grow think business continue in

Taylor Scott

we of focusing other competition. I the property, companies very more it. lot of Got the primary little one all helpful. that guess they're That's on specialty a Maybe smaller heard a seeing from side.

still think property is that targeted the in MGAs, price market. grow you is And flagged How your the a flagged I business? adequacy Lloyd's within profitability? place that can they to think I others insurance

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

there fires, been appetite that the the yesterday earlier, it than That tried or an but more on the a see the of whether a as to certain evident California insurance, is it's become still diminished today what reasonably extent having to is bit think there is a is It has clearly of pockets. property it that there that eroding competition but We yes, there have I what headwind from said, I property. in changes speaking, was still We'll to that market reinsurance for the has yesterday. front. impact some. But property is is articulate the not in opportunity, -- generally was tailwind, think it

Operator

Elyse next Wells from The Greenspan is from question Fargo.

Elyse Greenspan

just right, the My us on short might or question, hoping long been could stands in have segment. the of out you tonight, I tail give that couple first within guys of with was reinsurance calls, and reserve provide last you the to right, provide or insurance any by then willing breakdown, have color kind quarter. seen reserves you

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

Elyse, I don't it in of me. front have

probably if -- I think accurate you because can, want call, to you, if just give to what but the can or circling we you give anything wouldn't wouldn't Rich up wouldn't mind, you information. after Karen mind the that

liability, far feeds particularly we're to I think and As as in paying are talked paying about auto close where umbrella, calls, attention to the auto past into we've attention challenges, how close that. we're excess as and and liability

other way, to continues a very be it continues we where compensation have Going the guy, be to other good some workers' well. and lines as encouraging

stage. the how think the entrenched this to that have taken are and actions both regarding primary at excess, in I it the auto, we well applies

would as I right on go but we're prematurely, path. So I victory to so never declare the far think

Elyse Greenspan

it sounds your from you the reinsurance on guys cautious comments, right, pretty right casualty market. are like And

top how -- do or as, you to see line short playing think it's be play So line that to that aren't that XX%? I areas, offering long other markets, tail back, 'XX do grow about less XXXX? opportunities. top in to Rob, you as as perspective growth you good well don't to lines, XX% from you right, market, in I want out other out guess, think know, a get right, in you right, grow How could

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

hold X believe don't organization I that with part in opportunity for where else if than X%? you it double to that, do it think XX%? I I grow possible Is the be is prove anyone that able Yes, for is. rate of year take greater in there is. to our see it not. to that, should that the But grow we Yes, achieving? possible in that getting are the going direction an in I'm could that know what points I exposure something And that, this us get it help we're this excess I be that to rate, think XXXX what bait than us. of. of prove I be Yes, for is certainty we digits. Is pointing be more answer could XXXX that you I to should the do. is should guess guess And So or given I the any the to this.

Elyse Greenspan

loss last then anything a up anything... one. quarter And one maybe insurance underlying the there looked ratio Was like where it there from it picked running. -- little Was bit in the been had

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

would about just was point read some time Rich It I you deeply and or did of down on X.X to really And spend it, too mix business. this, so. caution into I to not boiled and it because

Operator

is next Kligerman, TD The question Securities. Andrew

Andrew Kligerman

and premium, remember net X.X%. the Could pickup. good correctly, October, you that expressed line it pricing a of a is January? other Rob, it at fair in And now some you was liability Looking up where in might felt in if casualty pretty on the you of kind I had insurance that optimism solid written see amount around elaborate

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

heels. on our seen I'm strong heard momentum that bit little said, from so information other very I've anecdotal rate the colleagues, on and a around be been the monitor, liability So I liability price based having I continues of achieved have think to the that. much included not on in that January That my

Andrew Kligerman

Okay.

the you And coming about XX%. do think reinsurance concerns you So reconcile pricing? casualty down said How I Rob, off? between reinsurance your the the disconnect pricing what's

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

down just casualty our about shy of -- be to for quarter. sorry, premium premium Our clear, our the was reinsurance in XX.X% just

Andrew Kligerman

maybe less and disposed far on seem you it you're yet the two like the to And primary casualty. Could For favorably reconcile on casualty? why reinsurance you level.

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

before there's there disconnect. think few market reinsurance need ago to a at reinsurance different woke property reinsurance. ceding it they up, between casualty I go in property a back adjusting different primary you more, a an the way. than think the I XOL commissions discipline, more needs disconnect if through No was And Because be getting basis and charge and that whether market years or a

Andrew Kligerman

America, but you color share Interesting. one then that and abroad a ops And quick Asia, on seeing because for you're could color of one. kind International, curious Latin maybe what's last that, markets going your not in insurance how your those Any on Europe. of on are us with lot business? U.K.,

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

Well, our mirror of some market going But including is some a a of are really markets, back are board. But United exceptional tell running lot image outside businesses. our you in they States. I of our obviously, have another, case conditions. this, coming risk-adjusted we highest different best some the been our hasn't would that and generated returns what no participate margin in of those of and we one that always the people is are the amongst the across And time, -- being from by colleagues businesses,

more and particularly through think I environments, competitive to we I to those the in. think great competitive there colleagues our are their confidence grow navigate deal a is and the become Nevertheless, market has of opportunity challenging. certainly parts of international effort the have where ability

Operator

Mark Securities. Hughes, next Truist the from take We'll question

Mark Hughes

E&S any How that and Rob, admitted. comments into E&S? movement you now? on still between strong mix Is do see the there

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

question, have a bit the professional casualty been of the our considerably less flow than a as become E&S competitive that there and side momentum of seeing mind don't for the we're if marketplace continues Mark. admitted more front. on said, California on E&S far taking half as little is, a flow growing Thanks submission But the tell have that business the regarding is side little having the momentum pockets into maybe to the fires faster step business be impact back, to more on would E&S E&S. I probably you you what are but today. the the Yes. see And our submission overall, robust. coming again We'll property

Mark Hughes

would you have expressed on you or likely social then underwriting Are you've deteriorating. And know in a optimism Pricing lot think in nicely. inflation? spread those but profitability like that little up confidence still loss inflation deteriorating not of talked is about inflation about seeing a down definitely and and you should What wouldn't go-forward be the basis. the be the more drivers, a we loss costs? a improving seems step the I it about

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

been rate this long for at a a we've think I time lot getting stage. of

to addition that, bodes that In you And of all optimistic put to been think the that I applied. that to I when think have time. visibility together, and have results already actions we in what over be cautiously and as we likely growing underwriting the continue for taken are confidence

of and that is have and we think or aggregate achieved think at I X.X% look a in mix level, to at trend, look we that we're business look pretty you our we if at the the we when a the we place. granular we at and so we good rate about achieve, at how reality think continue and look

So for some data of of know encouraging passage tail that us longer the lines through particularly sure, other there's with we than some again, are the seeing. of but none time,

Operator

From Zaremski. BMO Markets, Capital Mike up is next

Michael Zaremski

the releases. workers' coming First months, back answer definitely in it have reserve good of to comp -- kind changes to X quarter, to based assume but on guy was question, looks year-to-date I'm big reserve the terms of this like the going you don't a

good get of So tougher so comp of just release kind still to on if the we a workers' is bearish reserves. Rob I'm curious, it lot are kind of questions profits of is, one why and continues

or are of improving there? kind talking of your just dynamics through the potentially if just views on So kind curious comp

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

extended it negative and remained it an frequency when I has for to of that trend compensation, comes time. workers' remarkably period I how think misassessed

not did that addition by enough In credit has margin. meant give to and I to and wage that, inflation for what pricing, probably extension,

hard to insulated continue to concerned and will trend, that I market it workers' reality for indefinitely. hand, other me be that is comp the and imagine about from cost the medical medical On be

as this in in but at bit would it in you opportunities noticed finding quarter, But grew was so be grow modestly stage, we very negative. tends to we So rate a have, specialized. are to ever our even the comp, little though comp,

Street growing would not We comp. what are I as Main describe

specialized growing We the goes. as far are in comp exposure as

Michael Zaremski

it. Got

it that is to you combined assume gears, like the company's or we on the a E&S Okay. in to Switching is on fair given on, amount positive having in I appreciate that's fair if you're candidness impact than the kind standard past of Or time reflect faster whatever a commercial, assessment? not ratio? there. growing of that would year reflect overall

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

have to we if to and the Well, going not in the a your time that that get ratio. know on our loss point generating, for we sure until some think always have think goods so and good is I that's than was of But XX-plus write the without my positive I it's believe through to 'XX combined any not. Mike, you number case. That Do no ratios reminder ahead It through impact are every just business reality is sobering understand of possibility. you I other to a this improve? of your a 'XX had E&S of that we very returns, I will the at to of that sold in sold. that they higher that of is about of do others growing going make and mismatch result the point, really experience cases, we and do I not between opinion, margin, for years after passage very cost that are ahead a is get know and when And continue No, Rich strain, I don't really knowing not stage, cost business year anything specifically the to and your sale. going the are case, the there's place. ourselves. Quite as measured but a Yes, we're us. thoughtful with maybe healthy frankly, a place when conversation, percent I respect is that, hope chatted your goods ourselves? of we're certainly, made Are was we incentive, some possible your sort that, of but it. have stark in of

are ourselves. things look But going it they than ahead look possibly better the I to on we're yes, So when back going we in to get not today. of do think future,

Michael Zaremski

it. loud marketplace, and sticking E&S lastly, And the growth. on Got just clear maybe and about

in Your we're most companies the companies, some E&S are given the same returns I But growth all? how, in casualty the guess, direction Are last E&S outlook marketplace. deceleration talk that for pricing hearing at specifically good seeing some about quarter. as marketplace, remains you

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

the space. don't in is casualty casualty. I that that aside to a the that, casualty, whatever more strong, have to about see. Professional, is. remain there's different But leads animal. think then talking that if and in to we're is me We'll see putting California And that I that you're quite resilient is perhaps, in happening quite comes momentum imagine the going a see nothing can to believe market if don't quite But pricing E&S unpack space. E&S to property. property it a seen impact the the I frankly, of space, you bit that than I over if environment casualty happening the I Again, little years, it think, that E&S not is anything, erode. different. And several when likely potentially weighted property the see past growth towards has that lot that

we've and as So severely, tends power be as far to talked to conditions. casualty staying all think more shorter tends property respond as it market slower, tends lived as to has about, I be but opposed oftentimes but quickly to very

Operator

We'll go Research. Katie Sakys, Autonomous to next

Katie Sakys

you're the what you there. ratio color much the thinking underwriting into the and on reinsurance look can the the exceptional underlying an us into Monoline ratio. on the in too Reinsurance on uptick My Perhaps read question on guys there result an first is in margins I to it as offer this mean XXXX. know Excess cautioned not I result loss segment the you basis. some you segment, and for really was insurance quarter

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

some lines. maybe around back the within of of Obviously, that comments to casualty the have So market. couple reinsurance going the reservations the a matter, for And earlier. we professionals some of

to addition property is we In pressure. that, we on clearly under hand, market, the have other the believe

be the for see moment, that day priced. could that continues the as there think X/X, but adequately in clear business. it's And margin we to at You

see to And that reach sense. a defensive go property will makes going offensive ride we posture long that we then conclusion as horse no it continue you to from are to So as us posture. longer a we can until

reflection think it's return, let we of we're just risk-adjusted in I capital quarter. our We're that goes, by covered we're by it a the And far to was, again, reinsurance managers. casualty front view that the shrinking think we're than action don't make a demonstrated think that, money. it's as us already again, -- more on that we book go. in happy and the the XX% If business in I to As good

Katie Sakys

it. Got

back Rob, your growth this comp the commentary, on circling then And Okay. to workers' quarter.

to next and quarters? can You mentioned guys that particular some line of growth opportunity go? where and kind And of growth you continue those niches these niches over for there Are workers' were are modest that some the out of of of see couple sustainable? come comp growth. we were seeing Or pop pockets up

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

So bring. obviously, businesses the tomorrow away momentum again, knows space, the that not that the specialty they're tomorrow. do nobody couple we what for of going see will comp monoline enjoying sure participate in But that today,

throughout some continue So to 'XX. certainly, there will be opportunity likely we think

Katie Sakys

XXXX? reinsurance this have sneak how might may if compare your for Okay. Do you updates one And and budget in any on year program catastrophe XXXX your loss to I guys then more.

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

But we some at she I would have into in I I or a does. don't on similar property think detail can detail certainly, suggest of or the don't so, the reinsurance, my risk-adjusted reduction adjusted rate if get least call, to. I risk that you But it earlier Rich much as at fingertips. retro. would you shared cat Karen down around in -- a and allowed was it our give remind we're as XX%-ish comment

Operator

Bob Huang, Stanley. is up Next Morgan

Jian Huang

question really. like on social curious I'm quick a your -- on So view inflation

Coast. and Northeast bar is more does plaintiff So feel like it active in West the

area LA Commissioner touched U.S. it like represented like when to West for from it on shifting way there a Midwest? and In a particular to fact, Coast, Is could California's the away comes think geography about Northeast, there any think Georgia? feel wildfire. Are higher to inflation? risk it. social in be you Like the is Curious something it way about where your Florida also

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

challenging you tell really territories are or are that So part there than counties or obviously certain that I more mean, others. I that would of the country states

but tell red a be they're one very would changing difficulty it's the that been now color perhaps as goes. the purple. states think different you are that where has upon always are mentioned, a would once some and has color, become states, red, more an shifted just have ones of historically is I red quickly. to been environment blue state for very ever becoming we more do in were time, were that states or easier some blue. And was always the very that more of from perhaps and challenging example I place dramatically. That states not far now what's some you that have challenging, that more Georgia, once bar legal have a perspective, we aggressive have and business, to And the an they've that the example, but states plaintiff some state a changing that that are one it as been

would I'm and that definitely Cook time they County, trending sure that but was in Texas, are Texas more that they be once defendant-friendly state quite there not direction. in defendant-friendly upon a or Another counties are become

very more become have more important with. -- using that It's a rate to time but about, you of are are point. spend have and really And rate industry that they and tool, very terms exposure at environment. think and and internally a level, the colleagues, So instrument, I that because that credit, think something lot My I county we and obviously raised one blunt based going so to their also, and is thinking thinking a tool alone to are to term is become a this this to condition to about increasingly will has legal is on going the down grapple conditions. granular

Jian Huang

Got it.

personal statement direction... road? line if to the region Is my in some more geography important could the guess as fair it the down so commercial that to and the that is case, that casualty mix? is business than is Then a I'm follow-up more I behave curious just in sense where is fair that say Okay. lines of potentially clear. to that the just similar like I'm

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

exposure. You're exposure. means and far leaning in that what for you you're cat, as from legal by nat the territory direction as will, that that what for and And environment if of extrapolating means

Jian Huang

yes. Yes,

if sense see on your side. that makes to Just

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

is, So the applying share directionally, view, only business operates. how do not we it's answer a to a bit generalization the your to we us, while of that are

Operator

And we'll go next ISI. to David Motemaden, Evercore

David Motemaden

has I you you guess commend some back little bit guys the competitiveness spoke little from made reinsurance of about that and for a in market. casualty at that Rob, reevaluate market, thought stepping all your bit the One purchased the you more we all as coverage. here your X/X enter entered of all that peers bit at a or did your at -- at renewal? that program? process process little outward thought Has your a

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

So and we're effectively of capital conscious that reinsurance. the of cost the capital, i.e., we effectively that own capital we rent, both

interest to perspective, are fact that our what endure our and are we partnerships doing relationships We in reinsurance that care are are making understanding in where also that ones the with are transactional. there the that the very Those partnerships, are of that relationships partners true are conscious simultaneously and are our and those are treating are truly I of and colleagues think some other skilled that reinsurance there our respect shareholders, they is, to that time. From tend the are truly best deserve. that is sure attentive marketplace

conscious think day organization, going what to where this we're our sense makes the do long-term and of we're its when is, the and we done, partners. is for So all market shareholders

David Motemaden

in growth into lean that helpful. it a the are, XXXX? good rates guys bit guess commercial in you quarter. auto enough they to That's good we as tick are levels the in up those guess, And then to I liability little for are at it. the to was Got well as continue other I see head lines, as growth

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

you of of i.e., the competitors grips reinsurance the able from my we the rating us as quickly. wouldn't loss what achieve, it. for rate. that did know some perspective, that the written forward reality were the with and the marketplace Otherwise, is with don't already the grappling Today, move those that that balance been will facing rates to be year, given for more Obviously, we have an were into with I is of our activity in satisfied reality the creating to what happy space. but have with we come we saw opportunity available have we're environment business, finally the

David Motemaden

with then it. wondering... guess didn't guys I'll helpful. follow I'm just reserve you up I know And Got That's get so Karen. the development I segment, by

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

legs, It's I so office, and long a like the one short a hall piece and it's of give paper in I left got my call. Karen

David Motemaden

recent Yes, see of sure will you guys on as we do. I helpful. focus pick ]. can years. incremental would it be [ that lot can obviously are more the guess that accident I'm and on a there's that well, in sort also Any more the laser-focused on provide color you

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

talked beyond Yes. about. mean nothing really we I what

auto -- on earlier this is very for liability. I mentioned individual call, as that turbocharge focused the very on very on We're potential to injury social where we're to inflation. seems focused product lines think there be to we continue other we've

one it needs answer -- all inflation the think social is apply not But is. equally lines? I product So lines. impacting to to liability most does Yes,

mal. We are med concerned about

as part from territory And do with covered doing to need conditions ago, selection, We're even county. a jury be you few woodshed, auto terms a selection people about jurisdiction, earlier, someone have from concerned about we are a of could as other what a will take whatever, from a the an concerned coverage That on a or discussed perspective. perspective, of is liability. of perspective, types where our We and are front colleagues where and hurt. to moments seems individual physically rate group that to we

Operator

Our KBW. next question Shields, Meyer is from

Meyer Shields

situations, some you're trend spent about is loss we now Or talking examples that -- time is for is internally where just worse? How is individuals inflation. exacerbating these it you've social that to been getting long? like injury those seeing talking the about So bodily in something that

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

and that today, that. to is what something out trend been. not I apparent about very And that, new. that's It I mention it couldn't that steeper, talk has figured bit figure think a so should I I just is just the heck

Meyer Shields

enough. Fair

one stands or getting medium out the older of Okay. the getting jurisdictions, -- I'm a court context When ones concern you in -- that that talk so the lines better tail various as How sorry, about, historically tail we is about worse. reserves? I ones think should longer guess,

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

for do. people haven't up them I to it's catch for think attention, likely been paying who have some to

just quarter. This whatever, about been happened I measured isn't as But in what just as internally what Georgia, will this about have that be mean last something far placeholders, and people that a we this groundswell -- for we've like been was been I as just been happen think I describing not would to years. percolating, be quarters, it measured for tonight. who in has Texas, talking talking what be has paying

to those well response already in the So are place. realities, those

Meyer Shields

Okay. question. then And final quick Understood.

You year expense talked cat the impacting it is loss ratio mix change? accident about a in ex the ratio, change How segment. the impacting Insurance that mix

Richard Baio

on it of think period-over-period, only moved expense movement. I X.X%. don't really the think it's ratio, And driving having much an you I the as impact what's saw,

fairly it small. So was

an a another year, we're the of versa. year might So not where I excess a share be than costs, vice would where structure seeing we there perhaps say as or that we have the to might relates huge X from changes loss change have in reinsurance to to from other gone it quota acquisition

the through income in So that in there differences terms some statement. would be runs of where obviously

Operator

is up UBS. Next Brian Meredith,

Brian Meredith

for here couple questions Rob. A of you,

a The one, little first big picture.

still of there. what small at commercial growing So curious growing just your the the talked E&S in in Is carriers of there. of number market, Are your impeding you kind and a marketplace? seeing E&S about I'm thoughts some operations have the all that are maybe have right, standard are grants on that? opportunities

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

of In mean but a I be bit to the little don't to don't them. time, see disrespectful. interest direct, We be I'm going

Brian Meredith

give One. And flesh a bit other out view Maybe hard kind maybe curious a know still operation little what's can opportunity Berkley Good. for market. going I of with Homeowner's about of on some is us here kind pretty XXXX. the of helpful. kind is guess good a I That's then that's one, you there. I'm on growing been insurance expectations

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

today, So the it that that exists strong opportunity that yesterday just look, will as existed think tomorrow. be I

I think the to truly team it of shareholders' very are we when skilled have capital. an comes exceptional managing that people

that accretive I considerable. contribution think a a will economically operation, the truly they brand-wise building the to their and think just not profitability year the accretive group their I franchise to fantastic the group be And of but XXXX done in is in it's have that truly to overall. job

Operator

Josh next Shanker, Bank is of The question America.

Joshua Shanker

certain I just ask you wanted unattractive things market write reforms what that some kind that homeowners things you. to state's specific for on a maybe to about other have make One? And market little more of against attractive see a you wondering California. are in regime I'm could states question that about prohibition that you would insurance about One. states? until don't that more Brian's There's Obviously, that writing Berkley change in those there are Berkley

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

the this those One in stage, other Berkley focused decision Will to the to that I they're A, has comes that stakeholders, for foreseeable. have recognition for think we Yes. are markets and other circle? that levels. And in. on team exist at and the a that distraction, nothing at But in it healthy but the very focused for Josh, California we today, or are time? other I think challenges thanks appreciation this best. on And and that of there for and that homeowners, when time, B, And before an this not opportunities appropriately in and of certainly, respect the participate -- team question. the they the area over the that add insurance very that on markets them the focus us. is market multiple there that in I we on-deck opportunities a are Is consequently, California made they wish moment the is the would people think like not market

Joshua Shanker

I And question. to to switch investment an want

of over in talk have the well have potentially It's for the that make in been investments significant what Over bit what's -- appreciation rewarded you year from which and about foolish of you're can of the equities. Can going very many some part the investments public overall, really not little been through shareholders made XXXX, been the Is for alternative of to a long positioning has that in Obviously, improve? what see preventing realizing the see market a the not strategy, the 'XX? portfolio very term, Berkley we future? years. its but team potential enjoyed you case Berkley Berkley

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

a Josh, maybe couple comments. So quick of

the through alternatives, as in far saw Rich and a flagged as in off, couple unrealized with First coming investments, public securities. what of had associated our we particularly

think that aside not think, portfolio, million, the not it about Putting I unrealized, I other I far as a as value was period. visible. a $XXX alternative was, may that be conclusion. Obviously, oftentimes, $XXX So necessarily areas million that pretty for XX-day investment is which healthy to one would there of that leap suggest exists as

the different So Again, I no or securities. year. about point 'XX understand underwriting public the your investing the than on the

lost before maybe here, it could We're the who investment lost takes my lumpy, -- in the that portfolio. total particular or us to something return. any tomorrow. go like over have, on we wasn't turn alternative I a on discussion be portfolio, risk-adjusted just a But any can boss questions return long-term today like in is focus Josh, is further on you'd little us to to the alternative focus bit any on Our interest it and that not is other is sometimes but --

William Berkley

a our company especially public year. I portfolio, a portfolio our very had good that as think whole,

will of surprise us I adverse and think a that did will one private that's not us. But come a investing a bogey is up, are impacted when that but had is We honestly, it year that things think with higher well. little That the of take equity couple liquid little was risk. returns do somewhat on the the less consequential mean reduced be primarily of I to of available our by diminished. fund advantage think was advantage markets that equity private as equity a private doesn't they for adversely more the performance in things, a such we some behind It impact.

that I be no was problem in bump going expect road to the it it happen, a always a can doubt wouldn't but forward. So

Operator

It's have do one Yaron further We question. from Jefferies. Kinar

Unknown Analyst

Yaron. just property, quarter. Can was some growth marine, inland and within year I for hoping help Andrew short about particularly insurance you in is on pretty in This the Was tail it A&H? drivers lines, good this the just there? us think

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

Yes, yes and yes.

Unknown Analyst

Okay.

is three all of kind contributing. So

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

us property. as property. But not play for it's as a though marine, yes, big mainly inland and Property

Unknown Analyst

the on would was the XX growth be just in points to auto-related then And offset underlying, a mix, perhaps think or you beneficial mentioned impact current a picks, basis year different I the to business know on going that factor I bit it so but exposures that was property with there? would by

Richard Baio

Rich. is This

-- the other the which also of equation, to short tail look lines have makes certainly you that relative but part as it's to think ratios. that's the casualty I at contribution the well, lines higher have loss

typically the which lines. than higher other business, of property to ratios tail does at short book that instance, in for have of loss auto, an look, total example, liability you represents close XX% as or if So

Operator

hand this further At closing Rob to additional back time, I'll no or are there any remarks. Mr. questions. Berkley things for

W. Robert Berkley, Jr.

very you hosting thank in. evening, thank for much Lisa, all our to for us this participants and dialing Okay. you

is think perhaps I the But if set not important, table very and again positioned. outstanding of we what equally, a that's did how clearly I'll that just flag for an have XXXX, year, but yesterday. reflection more we well is

are to day, passing addition 'XX. table every with setting for the that, In we

evening. speaking XX you is you cylinders, do that days. good we the foreseeable. Have for look and to firing Thank again dialing a with about changing the in forward see we not So business in, and on all for

Operator

today's participation. conclude like all your conference. everyone, for And thank would that does once again, you We to

disconnect. now may You

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